Quick Back court ruling/thoughts/answer

[Clark Kent]

A1 is inbounding the ball from their own frontcourt. The inbound pass is high and A2 jumps from his frontcourt for it and it tips off his/her fingers and into A's backcourt where A3 retreats into the backcourt and gains control of the ball. Is this a violation?


Rule 9-9-1 states....

"A player shall not be the first to touch the ball after it has been in player and team control in the frontcourt, if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to the backcourt."

So in order for a violation to occur we need both player and team control. Do we have both in this situation?

[APG]

No violation...FED has told us to adjudicate backcourt violation plays as we always have...even with the poor wording.

Here's a similar play:

2011-2012 NFHS Basketball Interpretations

SITUATION 5: A1 has the ball for an end-line throw-in in his/her frontcourt. A1’s pass to A2, who is in the frontcourt standing near the division line, is high and deflects off A2’s hand and goes into Team A’s backcourt. A2 is then the first to control the ball in Team A’s backcourt.

RULING: Legal. There is no backcourt violation since player and team control had not yet been established in Team A’s frontcourt before the ball went into Team A’s backcourt. The throw-in ends when A2 legally touches the ball, but the backcourt count does not start until A2 gains control in his/her backcourt. (4-12-2d; 9-9)

[berserkBBK]

Team control in the front court is not established, so no violation.

[APG]

Originally Posted by berserkBBK

Team control in the front court is not established, so no violation.

Team control in the front court has been established as there's team control on the throw-in and the ball had frontcourt status when the player touched the ball with frontcourt status. What's missing though is player control had not yet been established.

[berserkBBK]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Team control in the front court has been established as there's team control on the throw-in and the ball had frontcourt status when the player touched the ball with frontcourt status. What's missing though is player control had not yet been established.

Thank you. I had the right call wrong wording

[Hugh Refner]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

A2 jumps from his frontcourt for it and it tips off his/her fingers and into A's backcourt

Player control is defined as a player holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds. A tip is not a hold or a dribble.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

No violation...FED has told us to adjudicate backcourt violation plays as we always have...even with the poor wording.

Here's a similar play:

2011-2012 NFHS Basketball Interpretations

SITUATION 5: A1 has the ball for an end-line throw-in in his/her frontcourt. A1’s pass to A2, who is in the frontcourt standing near the division line, is high and deflects off A2’s hand and goes into Team A’s backcourt. A2 is then the first to control the ball in Team A’s backcourt.

RULING: Legal. There is no backcourt violation since player and team control had not yet been established in Team A’s frontcourt before the ball went into Team A’s backcourt. The throw-in ends when A2 legally touches the ball, but the backcourt count does not start until A2 gains control in his/her backcourt. (4-12-2d; 9-9)

I think this play is similar but the biggest part that is missing is the division line is erased for the person who first touches it only. So I'm not so positive that the original OP is legal. Of course, I don't have my book in front of me now.

[tref]

No violation on the OP play.

"You're absolutely right, coach... but there's an exception on throw-ins. I'll email you the rule along with the 3 seconds rule that you requested in the 1stQ."

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Toren

I think this play is similar but the biggest part that is missing is the division line is erased for the person who first touches it only. So I'm not so positive that the original OP is legal. Of course, I don't have my book in front of me now.

The bolded part of your statement is most definitely incorrect.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The bolded part of your statement is most definitely incorrect.

9.9.1 Situation D and E

The exception granted during a throw-in ends when the throw-in ends and is only for the player making the initial touch on the ball.

[tref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The bolded part of your statement is most definitely incorrect.

I think (actually I hope) he is mistaking the following play for the OP!

9.9.1 SITUATION D:

Team A is awarded a throw-in near the division line. A1's throw-in is deflected by B1; A2 jumps from Team A's frontcourt, catches the ball in the air and lands in the backcourt.

RULING: Backcourt violation on Team A. The throw-in ends when it is legally touched by B1. A2 gains player and team control in the air after having left the floor from Team A's frontcourt, therefore having frontcourt status. As soon as A2 lands in the backcourt, he/she has committed a backcourt violation. The exception granted during a throw-in ends when the throw-in ends and is only for the player making the initial touch on the ball. (9-9-3)

If the defense tips the throw-in pass in the f/c then yes, the throw-in has ended & the ball has f/c status & the exception is off.

If the offense tips the throw-in pass, the throw-in has ended & even though t/c exists there is no player control yet & the exception is on.

9-9-3

During a jump ball, throw-in or while on defense, a player may legally jump from his/her frontcourt, secure control of the ball with both feet off the floor and return to the floor with one or both feet in the backcourt. The player may make a normal landing and it makes no difference whether the first foot down is in the frontcourt or backcourt.

[tref]

Ah I'm too late

Maybe Toren will bring JR back on this one...

[APG]

Originally Posted by Toren

I think this play is similar but the biggest part that is missing is the division line is erased for the person who first touches it only. So I'm not so positive that the original OP is legal. Of course, I don't have my book in front of me now.

But look at the rationale given...there must be team AND player control in the frontcourt...there's team control, but no player control in the frontcourt...thus no violation.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Toren

9.9.1 Situation D and E

The exception granted during a throw-in ends when the throw-in ends and is only for the player making the initial touch on the ball.

The throw-in exception applies to airborne players catching the ball which thus ends the throw-in AND establishes Player Control inbounds. The exception allows said airborne player to land in the BC though he had FC status when he initially established PC.

A tip does not constitute Player Control.

[Clark Kent]

Ok....So I read through all your posts and I agree. Obviously we need player control and team control in order to have a bc violation correct?

Now according to 4-12-1 it says "A player is in control of the ball when he/she is holding or dribbling a live ball"

And 6-1-2b says "the ball becomes live on a throw in when it is at the disposal of the thower"

So why isn't there player control as well as team control on this play? Why is it not back court? Rule references please