One of those days at the tourneys..

[sp279]

Two things I'm double checking myself on.....

1. Batter squares to bunt against a hard throwing pitcher. Obvious attempt. But she gets hit. I know it's a strike, but this girl is pretty hurting but at the same time the ball is still live with runners on base now moving. To include one about to round third to go home where B is on her knees right in the base path at home. Not a good situation...just interested in what you'all would do. Right or wrong I called the strike, then an injury time out which of course stopped all runners. Oh yeah, even HER coach was mad I did that with her girls still moving. Opinions?

2. Close game in runs. Runner on first and second. Girl hits to OF, slides into
2nd with a throw (called safe). Girl who was on second base rounds third and goes home...the one who was at first is now between 2nd and third (she hesitated to make sure she didn't need a tag up at 1st). The girl who slid at second has the ball under her, makes no attempt to move or get up while the
2nd baseman is desperately trying to reach through her legs, under her legs to get the ball but can't get the ball. She easily would have had at least a chance to make a throw to where ever that runner was going....which ended up being home. By the time the ball was dislodged all runners had scored. Keep in mind it was a good 4-5 seconds this ball was sat on. There were already two outs and both those runs made it a 1 run game (offensive team behind). That said, I called the base runner at second sitting on the ball out after the 2nd baseman finally got the ball out for interference. Offensive coach went ballistic as it ended the game (was last half of last inning, they were home) and they lost by one run. Opinions?

[Andy]

Originally Posted by sp279

Two things I'm double checking myself on.....

1. Batter squares to bunt against a hard throwing pitcher. Obvious attempt. But she gets hit. I know it's a strike, but this girl is pretty hurting but at the same time the ball is still live with runners on base now moving. To include one about to round third to go home where B is on her knees right in the base path at home. Not a good situation...just interested in what you'all would do. Right or wrong I called the strike, then an injury time out which of course stopped all runners. Oh yeah, even HER coach was mad I did that with her girls still moving. Opinions?

You're right...it's a strike. Since the player was hit with the pitched ball it's also a DEAD BALL. Runners may not advance and need to be returned to the base they were on at the time of the pitch. Anytime a batter is hit by a pitched ball, the ball is dead. Your call should be...DEAD BALL, STRIKE!

Originally Posted by sp279

2. Close game in runs. Runner on first and second. Girl hits to OF, slides into
2nd with a throw (called safe). Girl who was on second base rounds third and goes home...the one who was at first is now between 2nd and third (she hesitated to make sure she didn't need a tag up at 1st). The girl who slid at second has the ball under her, makes no attempt to move or get up while the
2nd baseman is desperately trying to reach through her legs, under her legs to get the ball but can't get the ball. She easily would have had at least a chance to make a throw to where ever that runner was going....which ended up being home. By the time the ball was dislodged all runners had scored. Keep in mind it was a good 4-5 seconds this ball was sat on. There were already two outs and both those runs made it a 1 run game (offensive team behind). That said, I called the base runner at second sitting on the ball out after the 2nd baseman finally got the ball out for interference. Offensive coach went ballistic as it ended the game (was last half of last inning, they were home) and they lost by one run. Opinions?

My question would be...how did the ball get underneath the runner? If it was a bad throw or the infielder couldn't handle the throw, then that is on the defense. If the runner was just staying in a position to be in contact with the bag after her slide and was not trying to prevent the fielder from retrieving the ball, I've got nothing. I would say that this is very much a HTBT (had to be there) to see this play.

[sp279]

Andy,
Thanks for that clarification on the dead ball/strike. Half right is better than none I'm supposin'!

The play at second was a slide in, close play where the ball came off the glove and went under the runner. And in my mind, she looked right at me and knew the ball was under her and wasn't gonna let the fielder get to it. To add to that, the fielder was practically trying to push her off the ball but the R made no attempt (and she had her foot on the bag) to allow the fielder a chance.
The interference rule doesn't have to be intentional interference, but hinders play. I guess you're right, had to be there but without doubt her actions would have cost at least an extra run. She had plenty of foot on the bag to safely roll to one side or the other.
Thanks..

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by sp279

Andy,
Thanks for that clarification on the dead ball/strike. Half right is better than none I'm supposin'!

The play at second was a slide in, close play where the ball came off the glove and went under the runner. And in my mind, she looked right at me and knew the ball was under her and wasn't gonna let the fielder get to it. To add to that, the fielder was practically trying to push her off the ball but the R made no attempt (and she had her foot on the bag) to allow the fielder a chance.
The interference rule doesn't have to be intentional interference, but hinders play. I guess you're right, had to be there but without doubt her actions would have cost at least an extra run. She had plenty of foot on the bag to safely roll to one side or the other.
Thanks..

The point might be "And in my mind, she looked right at me and knew the ball was under her and wasn't gonna let the fielder get to it";
if that means as intentional as it reads.

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

Originally Posted by sp279

Two things I'm double checking myself on.....


2. Close game in runs. Runner on first and second. Girl hits to OF, slides into
2nd with a throw (called safe). Girl who was on second base rounds third and goes home...the one who was at first is now between 2nd and third (she hesitated to make sure she didn't need a tag up at 1st). The girl who slid at second has the ball under her, makes no attempt to move or get up while the
2nd baseman is desperately trying to reach through her legs, under her legs to get the ball but can't get the ball. She easily would have had at least a chance to make a throw to where ever that runner was going....which ended up being home. By the time the ball was dislodged all runners had scored. Keep in mind it was a good 4-5 seconds this ball was sat on. There were already two outs and both those runs made it a 1 run game (offensive team behind). That said, I called the base runner at second sitting on the ball out after the 2nd baseman finally got the ball out for interference. Offensive coach went ballistic as it ended the game (was last half of last inning, they were home) and they lost by one run. Opinions?

Had a tournament sitch like that once : Had someone brand new working the bases, so R1 on 1B, grounder to 2B, R1 runs into F1 , knocks her over and STAYS there for like 2 seconds, 2B finally gets a chance to make a way late throw to 1B, I wait a second for my unsure partner, and finally yell, DEAD BALL! Got R1 out on the tag, then got her for INT, as she prevented 2B from completing the DP. Of course, the OC went ballistic on the second out.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by ASA/NYSSOBLUE

Had a tournament sitch like that once : Had someone brand new working the bases, so R1 on 1B, grounder to 2B, R1 runs into F1 , knocks her over and STAYS there for like 2 seconds, 2B finally gets a chance to make a way late throw to 1B, I wait a second for my unsure partner, and finally yell, DEAD BALL! Got R1 out on the tag, then got her for INT, as she prevented 2B from completing the DP. Of course, the OC went ballistic on the second out.

Hmmmm. Where was the Obstruction call?

I'm assuming you meant that R1 ran into F3. If that's the case, unless she went out of her way to purposely collide with F3, that's Obstruction. The moment that F4 tags R1 out, you then have to kill play and award R1 second base due to the Obstruction. The fact that R1 held down F3 for two seconds (and two seconds really isn't that much time in my mind to warrant an interference call; she could have been dazed from the collision) has no bearing on the play because there would have been no follow-up play on the BR allowed.

Unless I'm seeing things differently than what you describe, I've got runners at first and second here, not two outs.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by ASA/NYSSOBLUE

Had a tournament sitch like that once : Had someone brand new working the bases, so R1 on 1B, grounder to 2B, R1 runs into F1 , knocks her over and STAYS there for like 2 seconds, 2B finally gets a chance to make a way late throw to 1B, I wait a second for my unsure partner, and finally yell, DEAD BALL! Got R1 out on the tag, then got her for INT, as she prevented 2B from completing the DP. Of course, the OC went ballistic on the second out.

Please redo this. This makes no sense. F1 is the pitcher. 2B is a base, not a fielder. When, and how, and by whom was R1 tagged? What really happened here?

PS - sounds like obstruction to me, before any possible interference.

[CecilOne]

I think this.
R1 on 1B, grounder to 2B, R1 runs into F4 , knocks her over and STAYS there for like 2 seconds, F4 finally gets a chance to make a way late throw to 1B, I wait a second for my unsure partner, and finally yell, DEAD BALL!

Got R1 out on the tag, then got her for INT, as she prevented F4 from completing the DP. Of course, the OC went ballistic on the second out. "

[Crabby_Bob]

Originally Posted by ASA/NYSSOBLUE

... Of course, the OC went ballistic on the second out.

Ballistic trajectory lands him in the next county, right?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by sp279

The interference rule doesn't have to be intentional interference, but hinders play.

Well, it depends. You didn't say which rule set you were playing under, because it makes a difference.

What you have here is a runner interfering with a thrown ball. If this was a high school game under NFHS, rule 8-6-10d requires that interference to be intentional. ASA rule 8-7-J-3, on the other hand, does not require that interference to be intentional.

So be careful when you say "interference doesn't have to be intentional." In some cases it does.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by sp279

Two things I'm double checking myself on.....

1. Batter squares to bunt against a hard throwing pitcher. Obvious attempt. But she gets hit. I know it's a strike, but this girl is pretty hurting but at the same time the ball is still live with runners on base now moving. To include one about to round third to go home where B is on her knees right in the base path at home. Not a good situation...just interested in what you'all would do. Right or wrong I called the strike, then an injury time out which of course stopped all runners. Oh yeah, even HER coach was mad I did that with her girls still moving. Opinions?

No further comment beyond what Andy wrote.

Originally Posted by sp279

2. Close game in runs. Runner on first and second. Girl hits to OF, slides into
2nd with a throw (called safe). Girl who was on second base rounds third and goes home...the one who was at first is now between 2nd and third (she hesitated to make sure she didn't need a tag up at 1st). The girl who slid at second has the ball under her, makes no attempt to move or get up while the
2nd baseman is desperately trying to reach through her legs, under her legs to get the ball but can't get the ball. She easily would have had at least a chance to make a throw to where ever that runner was going....which ended up being home. By the time the ball was dislodged all runners had scored. Keep in mind it was a good 4-5 seconds this ball was sat on. There were already two outs and both those runs made it a 1 run game (offensive team behind). That said, I called the base runner at second sitting on the ball out after the 2nd baseman finally got the ball out for interference. Offensive coach went ballistic as it ended the game (was last half of last inning, they were home) and they lost by one run. Opinions?

No comment on the interference call... you saw it, you judged it. My comment is where were the runners when the interference occurred? Interference is a dead ball, with runners returning to the last base occupied at the time of the interference. Not that is made any difference in the outcome of this game...

[sp279]

Cecil....LoL, oh yeah....she knew what she was doing; you phrased it more succinctly.

Manny, get what you're saying but I was going with 10c of that rule which in this situation was more applicable than 10d. She was trying to get to and throw the ball home. In c it needs no intent and d I always reserved for the i.e.- runner running into the fielder about to make a play or throw. In my case, it was the fielder trying to get the ball to attempt a throw (home) and couldn't do it because of the interference. It was USSSA rules by the way, anyway; that said look under 8-18-F & G. Essentially same wording as PIAA.
Honestly, I never liked the "Intentional" part in the interference section. I don't like having to decipher what someone is thinking in their head to make that call. Seen too many plays where things looked inadvertent and ones where it was obvious they were meaning to freight train someone. Honestly would like it better if it just said "interferes" with a fielder or thrown ball. Just my opinion.

Dakota- Which runner are you referring to; the one who slide in at second or the one who had been on first and was heading home? Regardless, though you are right about INTERFERENCE, DEAD BALL; it was the third out and ended the game after I called the interference anyway. The runner on first after I called the interference was just about to round third for home.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by sp279

It was USSSA rules by the way, anyway; that said look under 8-18-F & G. Essentially same wording as PIAA.

Just for reference, there are no such animal as "PIAA rules." PIAA adopts the NFHS rules and thing makes modifications (e.g. "game ending procedures").

I'm sure there are not many on this board know or care about the PIAA.

[sp279]

Slick,
I stand corrected that is official NFHS rules, NOT PIAA. Thank you for correcting that major error.

Second, I am thankful to meet the official spokesperson for others on this site...I was wondering who that was; Your contributions to the post just add so much more helpful meaning as well.

Maybe one day we can all grow up and be just like you...

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by sp279

...Dakota- Which runner are you referring to; the one who slide in at second or the one who had been on first and was heading home? Regardless, though you are right about INTERFERENCE, DEAD BALL; it was the third out and ended the game after I called the interference anyway. The runner on first after I called the interference was just about to round third for home.

I wasn't there, but it applies to all of the runners who were active at the time of the interference. From the wording of your OP, it would seem that at least one run should have been taken off the board and that runner returned to a base. But, since the game ended on the interference call, the issue is largely moot (except for those keeping score). I only mention it for completeness in getting the call right.