Force out or not

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Did she have control of the ball when she stepped on the base? If so...end of story. What happened after that doesn't matter. The runner was already out before the second tag happened.

Yes, she had control, thus I called the out. That was my opinion as well.

Here is a scenario I thought of as well.

What if instead of 1/2 second later, the retired runner had run into the player (who wasn't making a play on anyone else), 2 seconds later and the ball came out. The timing should not matter on this play because she had control at the moment she touched the base, which is the requirement for a force out.

One of my partners did make a good point though. The definition of a catch does require a voluntary release of the ball. When she reached down and applied the tag and the ball came out, it wasn't a voluntary release.

I still stand by my call though.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Yes, she had control, thus I called the out. That was my opinion as well.

Here is a scenario I thought of as well.

What if instead of 1/2 second later, the retired runner had run into the player (who wasn't making a play on anyone else), 2 seconds later and the ball came out. The timing should not matter on this play because she had control at the moment she touched the base, which is the requirement for a force out.

One of my partners did make a good point though. The definition of a catch does require a voluntary release of the ball. When she reached down and applied the tag and the ball came out, it wasn't a voluntary release.

I still stand by my call though.

In the real world, a voluntary release is not required. Yes, I know what the NFHS rule book states, but if the player can demonstrate control, I really don't care how the ball is released.

You are overthinking this. You got it right for the right reason.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

In the real world, a voluntary release is not required.

I agree.

Voluntary release proves control. But a lack of voluntary release does not prove a lack of control. VR is just one possible way to determine control - not the only way.

[HugoTafurst]

Would just like to add that The concern should be the definition of a tag (base), not the definition of a catch.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

Would just like to add that The concern should be the definition of a tag (base), not the definition of a catch.

+

[MDUmp]

3 man for a JV game? Your school district has too much money.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by MDUmp

3 man for a JV game? Your school district has too much money.

W-a-i-t for it...

[DaveASA/FED]

Originally Posted by MDUmp

3 man for a JV game? Your school district has too much money.

Or they have umpires that want to learn 3 person mechanics. I don't know their situation, but I know in my area this year we have scheduled all varisty games 3 person and are splitting the fees of 2 umpires between the 3 working the game. So for example, instead of 2 umpires making $60 for the game all 3 make $40. Costs the schools the same $$ and gives us a chance to help people learn the 3 umpire system. We have moved this to the JV games also at times, or if someone gets rained out or they find out the visiting team forgot they didn't have a freshman team till the day before the scheduled game one of those officials will show up and do 3 person on JV.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by MDUmp

3 man for a JV game? Your school district has too much money.

Or, your association has too many umpires!

I suspect it would be difficult to put 2 umpires on every JV game here
(but, caveat, that is more of an impression than an informed statement... I'm not an assignor, so I don't REALLY know for sure.)