How much rope, after you mess up?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Pre-judging who and what?

MTD, Sr.

Seems pretty obvious to me. You're prejudging that a coach who is also a sports official should know better than to argue his/her position during a game, and you're giving him/her no slack, whereas you might give a coach who acts similarly but doesn't officiate a bit more leeway.

You should treat everyone equally. A coach is just a coach for that game. It shouldn't matter to the game's officials what they do in other games. Clean slate is how you should handle it.

Have you ever coached your kid while you were an official? I have, and believe me, it's not easy to bite your tongue when you see your team get wronged by an official. I can tolerate the occasional banger that doesn't go our way, or the close pitch that I thought was missed. But when I see things as Mike described that are clearly a result of an umpire not doing his/her job out there, like the PU not watching for a swipe tag at first base or the BU not watching for a proper tag-up, that's not going to keep me quiet. I know if I were the umpire with that excuse, I would deserve a bit of an ass-chewing from the coach, and I would allow the vent, regardless if he/she is also an official or not.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Seems pretty obvious to me. You're prejudging that a coach who is also a sports official should know better than to argue his/her position during a game, and you're giving him/her no slack, whereas you might give a coach who acts similarly but doesn't officiate a bit more leeway.

You should treat everyone equally. A coach is just a coach for that game. It shouldn't matter to the game's officials what they do in other games. Clean slate is how you should handle it.

Have you ever coached your kid while you were an official? I have, and believe me, it's not easy to bite your tongue when you see your team get wronged by an official. I can tolerate the occasional banger that doesn't go our way, or the close pitch that I thought was missed. But when I see things as Mike described that are clearly a result of an umpire not doing his/her job out there, like the PU not watching for a swipe tag at first base or the BU not watching for a proper tag-up, that's not going to keep me quiet. I know if I were the umpire with that excuse, I would deserve a bit of an ass-chewing from the coach, and I would allow the vent, regardless if he/she is also an official or not.

I am speaking of unsportsmanlike conduct. I will always answer legitimate questions from coaches (even assistant coaches) when asked in a professional manner, but coaches who are also sports officials are always (with apologies to the late J. Dallas Shirley) sports officials first and coaches second when it comes to the interactions with the game officials during the games they are coaching.

MTD, Sr.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I am speaking of unsportsmanlike conduct. I will always answer legitimate questions from coaches (even assistant coaches) when asked in a professional manner, but coaches who are also sports officials are always (with apologies to the late J. Dallas Shirley) sports officials first and coaches second when it comes to the interactions with the game officials during the games they are coaching.

MTD, Sr.

That's a good point.

I'm not exactly proud of my behavior, and it took quite a bit to get me there.

Your point makes me think, though. If I was wearing my old hat, and evaluating / training these guys - how would that conversation have gone after the game... Not well. Probably not as pointed... but not well.

[PATRICK]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I am speaking of unsportsmanlike conduct. I will always answer legitimate questions from coaches (even assistant coaches) when asked in a professional manner, but coaches who are also sports officials are always (with apologies to the late J. Dallas Shirley) sports officials first and coaches second when it comes to the interactions with the game officials during the games they are coaching.

MTD, Sr.

Every coach, regardless of his or her background, should get treated the exact same way in any contest we officiate!

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by PATRICK

Every coach, regardless of his or her background, should get treated the exact same way in any contest we officiate!

And I do. BUT, from an ethical conduct stand point: If you are a sports official who also coaches, even if your coach a sport that you do not officiate, you are a sports official first and must conduct yourself as a sports official even when coaching. In fact, when you attend a sporting event as a spectator, even if the sport is one you do not officiate, you are an official first and foremost and should conduct yourself accordingly.

I cannot tell you home many times when our sons were young jr. high school and younger. I coached their youth basketball teams and was a spectator at their summer league baseball games. The officials who adjudicate that level of games many times are either young officials trying to learn their profession or veteran officials who only care about collecting a game fee and do not give a donkey's backside whether the do a good job or not. But you can be assured that you could tell one way or another what I thought of an official's screw up especially when I was coaching the boy's basketball teams. I would even get upset when my "better half" would yell at the officials. The great thing is that the parents of our son's respected my position as a sports officials an my code of ethics.

MTD, Sr.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

And I do. BUT, from an ethical conduct stand point: If you are a sports official who also coaches, even if your coach a sport that you do not officiate, you are a sports official first and must conduct yourself as a sports official even when coaching. In fact, when you attend a sporting event as a spectator, even if the sport is one you do not officiate, you are an official first and foremost and should conduct yourself accordingly.

I agree with everything you said.

But I still won't go into a game as an official, and give one coach a short leash and another coach a long one, just because the former is a known official and the latter is not. We should never enter a contest with a prejudice toward one team over the other. No different than carrying a grudge on a coach or player from a previous encounter.

If I do anything when a coach/official steps a little over the line but not far enough to get ejected, I would inform the assignor of the incident, assuming, of course, I know who that person is and can reach out to him/her.