Bases loaded walk

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Goes to whether the runner is considered "awarded" home due to the walk, or forced due to the batter being awarded 1B (see the 1st thread below in "Similar Threads")
In the first case, I would not have her in jeopardy of being appealed until she enters DBT, in the second, I would rule on an appeal as soon as she passed home plate untouched.

Yes, this is the key distinction.

And, Fed's rule book is not completely clear, but as I read it, the BR is awarded 1B, and the other runners advance if forced (and, hence, their base is not an award). The other runners are not in jeopardy while advancing to the next base, but are in jeopardy if they advance beyond, and they are certainly in jeopardy of a missed base appeal should they attempt to advance beyond.

NFHS 8-4 ART. 3 . . . A runner is entitled to advance without liability to be put out when:

a. forced to vacate a base because the batter was awarded first base.

EFFECT: (F.P.) The ball remains in play unless it is blocked. Any runner affected is entitled to one base and may advance farther at their own risk if the ball is in play.

[CecilOne]

Passing the plate when forced to advance it is not like passing a base where another one is ahead.

Advance w/o liability means forced to score with not being able to be put out. BUT, that leaves us saying the runner could go straight to the dugout w/o touching home plate.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Yes, this is the key distinction.

And, Fed's rule book is not completely clear, but as I read it, the BR is awarded 1B, and the other runners advance if forced (and, hence, their base is not an award). The other runners are not in jeopardy while advancing to the next base, but are in jeopardy if they advance beyond, and they are certainly in jeopardy of a missed base appeal should they attempt to advance beyond.

I still don't see the difference whether or not the base is an awarded base or a forced-to base. Rule 8-3-11 says, "Awarded bases must be run legally." That implies to me that if a runner passes an awarded base and misses it, she is subject to a live ball appeal. And 8-3-4 says that passing a base is considered touching that base, even for awarded bases. Again, the implication to me is that a live ball appeal of the runner for passing and missing an awarded base is viable.

Say the batter-runner overruns first base on a walk, and misses the base in the process. If the defense appeals her miss by either tagging her or the base before she returns, is she not subject to an Out call? If not, why not? What rule protects her here? And if she is subject to an Out call, why wouldn't the same be true at any other base, including home?

[Dakota]

The base on balls is the red-headed stepchild in the family of base awards, since the ball remains live. In other base awards, a live ball appeal is not even a possibility and the umpire must allow the awarded runner to complete her base-running responsibilities before honoring an appeal.

[Tru_in_Blu]

OK, so instead of a BB w/ bases loaded, the batter is HBP. Now we have a dead ball.

How much does that change this scenario assuming everything else remains the same?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

OK, so instead of a BB w/ bases loaded, the batter is HBP. Now we have a dead ball.

How much does that change this scenario assuming everything else remains the same?

Runners must be given the opportunity to complete their base running responsibilities before a dead ball appeal can be heard. Therefore, the appeal on R1 cannot be heard until she enters the dugout (and, hence, has no further opportunity to go back and touch home plate).

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Runners must be given the opportunity to complete their base running responsibilities before a dead ball appeal can be heard. Therefore, the appeal on R1 cannot be heard until she enters the dugout (and, hence, has no further opportunity to go back and touch home plate).

Disagree, based on rule 8-4-1. She was said to have touched the base when she passed the base. A missed base can be a live ball appeal, thus the appeal is granted and the call is out.

[MD Longhorn]

I do understand the logic of both sides of this - and using logic alone, one could support either side of this argument, as TPTB have not defined this perfectly.

However, the interp I typed (and ATL typed) is the one we've been given from our higher ups.

[RKBUmp]

Look up ASA case play 8.1-11. Runner who missed the plate may be ruled out on appeal.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Look up ASA case play 8.1-11. Runner who missed the plate may be ruled out on appeal.

The OP is fed rules (at least I assume so, since it is a JV game), but clearly a runner missing home plate can be appealed; that is not in question.