Two quick questions

[sp279]

Had this discussion- I was wrong (I guess): A girl on 2nd & 3rd. Batter drills it to center field, 2nd and 3rd score...batter gets to 3rd. Field ump saw her clearly miss first. Here comes the appeal, she's called out. What happens to the two runners that scored (NFHS rules)?

What do most of the umps use as a simple rule of thumb for penalty enforcement with illegal substitution (offense of defense) and batting out of order? Coaches sometimes confuse the two's penalties.
TY

[LIUmp]

how many outs?

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by sp279

Had this discussion- I was wrong (I guess): A girl on 2nd & 3rd.

Must be a big girl.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by sp279

(1) Had this discussion- I was wrong (I guess): A girl on 2nd & 3rd. Batter drills it to center field, 2nd and 3rd score...batter gets to 3rd. Field ump saw her clearly miss first. Here comes the appeal, she's called out. What happens to the two runners that scored (NFHS rules)?

(2) What do most of the umps use as a simple rule of thumb for penalty enforcement with illegal substitution (offense of defense) and batting out of order? Coaches sometimes confuse the two's penalties.
TY

(1) If the BR missing 1st was the third out, no runs score, other wise they both do.


(2) Batting out of order is not illegal sub, involves someone already in the batting order, has specific penalties or actions.

Illegal sub is someone entering that was not in the lineup and can't legally enter as tried.

If you are referring to the DP or FLEX, find one of the topics already discussed at length.

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

(1) If the BR missing 1st was the third out, no runs score, other wise they both do.


(2)

just a clarification: in NFHS this appeal could also be a 'fourth out' appeal, and the defensive coach would be given an option to turn the 'fourth' out, into the 'third' out. thus no runs would sore.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

just a clarification: in NFHS this appeal could also be a 'fourth out' appeal, and the defensive coach would be given an option to turn the 'fourth' out, into the 'third' out. thus no runs would sore.

I thought the fourth out appeal had to be on a runner that scored.

[LIUmp]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I thought the fourth out appeal had to be on a runner that scored.

It does. You're right.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I thought the fourth out appeal had to be on a runner that scored.

In ASA it does. NFHS allows advantageous fourth out appeals on non-scoring runners.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by youngump

In ASA it does. NFHS allows advantageous fourth out appeals on non-scoring runners.

Please explain how this works relative to the OP. I'm only asking this because I don't work Fed and obviously, not familiar with the rule.

[LIUmp]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Please explain how this works relative to the OP. I'm only asking this because I don't work Fed and obviously, not familiar with the rule.

Indeed. Why would there be a need for a fourth out appeal on a non scoring runner? That makes no sense.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by LIUmp

Indeed. Why would there be a need for a fourth out appeal on a non scoring runner? That makes no sense.

Because a DIFFERENT runner may have scored, and getting this fourth out would keep that run from scoring??

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by LIUmp

Indeed. Why would there be a need for a fourth out appeal on a non scoring runner? That makes no sense.

It makes a lot of sense. The defense can appeal a missed base that would have been a force out as the fourth out, and therefore, no runs can score. In ASA, they cannot do this unless the runner being appealed also scored. To my knowledge, ASA is the ONLY organization that has that (silly) rule.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Please explain how this works relative to the OP. I'm only asking this because I don't work Fed and obviously, not familiar with the rule.

Bases loaded 2 outs. The ball is hit deep. The BR misses first base on the way to second and the runner from first is thrown out at the plate. In NFHS (and I'm pretty sure every other form of softball / and for that matter baseball), you can appeal the BR missing first and get rid of all the runs.

Or bases loaded 2 outs. The ball is hit deep. All runners come home to score. The batter runner makes it to third where she is tagged out for the third out. She missed first. In NFHS you can appeal for an advantageous alternative third out. In ASA you can't.

[LIUmp]

I stand corrected. Thanks guys.