Got to vent.

[RKBUmp]

I really do not know how anyone who has umpired can coach a team when you are dealing with umpires that do not know rules. My daughter asked me to help her coach her junior high team and today was their first game. Here is a short list of what we dealt with.

Umpire showed up 15 minutes late. Checks equipment and pulls 2 of our bats, a Stealth that was my daughters college bat and one of the kids personal bats that is brand new. I ask what is wrong with the bats, he tells me the Stealth has some chips in the paint and the other bat has a dent. I ask why he is tossing the Stealth because of the paint chips and he told me the rules specifically state the bat can have no chips. OK, guess I missed that part of the rule book. The other bat he must have the most calibrated hands on earth because I sure as heck couldnt feel any dents in the brand new bat.

Pregame meeting, I walk out with my daughter and captains to the pregame. Umpire looks at me and says who are you? I tell him I am one of the coaches. He asks if I am the head coach. I tell him no, my daughter is the head coach. He then tells me the pregame is restricted to head coaches and captains only and I have to leave the pregame.

One of our players was literally turning the corner into the dugout and pulled off her helmet as she turned the corner. 1 foot was in dugout the other on the field. He restricted the player to the dugout.

One of the players headband fell out of her back pocket while she was at bat. She picked it up and wrapped it around her wrist. Instead of telling her no she couldnt do that, he issues her and my daughter warnings for jewelry.

In the 3rd inning I was trying to keep score and coach 1st base. Apparently my daughter had put a wrong number on one of the players and we had already gone through the lineup twice and neither I or the other team had caught it. I noticed the number and asked my daughter if she had put in a sub. She said no, the girl bats and walks and 2 more batters come up after her and she has at this point advanced to 3rd. Suddenly the umpire calls time, calls the runner on 3rd out and restricts both the player and my daughter to the dugout. Im just keeping my mouth shut because I couldnt hear what was being said on other side of the field. Umpire goes back behind plate and then tells me I have to move to the 3rd base coaches box. I ask why, he tells me the head coach must be in the 3rd base box. So, I head over to the 3rd base box, my daughter is right there and I ask what happened. She tells me he called the runner out for being out of order and restricted them both to the dugout. I call time and approach the umpire. I told him I never saw or heard the other team make any appeals. He tells me they didnt, he discovered the incorrect number himself. I explain that is an appeal that must be made by the defense. He tells me it is discoverable by the umpire at any time and I dont want to get in a rules discussion with him because he knows every rule. I just walked back to the coaches box.

Pitchers on both teams were illegal all day and no IP calls which I am fine with. Its junior high ball and most of the kids have never played before. Other team brings in a new pitcher. She starts her warmup pitches and puts her left foot on the plate with her right foot back like a lefty would pitch except she is right handed. She then starts her windup and steps forward with her left foot. As I said, pitchers for both teams had been doing things illegal all day, double touching, stepping on with hands together, one was literally skipping out off the plate and pitching. So this new pitcher throws her first pitch and suddenly he calls an IP. I figure he must have gotten her for the way she had her feet. Nope, double touch. He hit her probably 3 more times after that and yet he hadnt called it on the other 2 pitchers.


Those are just the highlites.

[Dakota]

All I can say is... good job keeping yourself under control!

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

I really do not know how anyone who has umpired can coach a team when you are dealing with umpires that do not know rules. My daughter asked me to help her coach her junior high team and today was their first game. Here is a short list of what we dealt with.

Umpire showed up 15 minutes late. Checks equipment and pulls 2 of our bats, a Stealth that was my daughters college bat and one of the kids personal bats that is brand new. I ask what is wrong with the bats, he tells me the Stealth has some chips in the paint and the other bat has a dent. I ask why he is tossing the Stealth because of the paint chips and he told me the rules specifically state the bat can have no chips. OK, guess I missed that part of the rule book. The other bat he must have the most calibrated hands on earth because I sure as heck couldnt feel any dents in the brand new bat.

Pregame meeting, I walk out with my daughter and captains to the pregame. Umpire looks at me and says who are you? I tell him I am one of the coaches. He asks if I am the head coach. I tell him no, my daughter is the head coach. He then tells me the pregame is restricted to head coaches and captains only and I have to leave the pregame.

One of our players was literally turning the corner into the dugout and pulled off her helmet as she turned the corner. 1 foot was in dugout the other on the field. He restricted the player to the dugout.

One of the players headband fell out of her back pocket while she was at bat. She picked it up and wrapped it around her wrist. Instead of telling her no she couldnt do that, he issues her and my daughter warnings for jewelry.

In the 3rd inning I was trying to keep score and coach 1st base. Apparently my daughter had put a wrong number on one of the players and we had already gone through the lineup twice and neither I or the other team had caught it. I noticed the number and asked my daughter if she had put in a sub. She said no, the girl bats and walks and 2 more batters come up after her and she has at this point advanced to 3rd. Suddenly the umpire calls time, calls the runner on 3rd out and restricts both the player and my daughter to the dugout. Im just keeping my mouth shut because I couldnt hear what was being said on other side of the field. Umpire goes back behind plate and then tells me I have to move to the 3rd base coaches box. I ask why, he tells me the head coach must be in the 3rd base box. So, I head over to the 3rd base box, my daughter is right there and I ask what happened. She tells me he called the runner out for being out of order and restricted them both to the dugout. I call time and approach the umpire. I told him I never saw or heard the other team make any appeals. He tells me they didnt, he discovered the incorrect number himself. I explain that is an appeal that must be made by the defense. He tells me it is discoverable by the umpire at any time and I dont want to get in a rules discussion with him because he knows every rule. I just walked back to the coaches box.

Pitchers on both teams were illegal all day and no IP calls which I am fine with. Its junior high ball and most of the kids have never played before. Other team brings in a new pitcher. She starts her warmup pitches and puts her left foot on the plate with her right foot back like a lefty would pitch except she is right handed. She then starts her windup and steps forward with her left foot. As I said, pitchers for both teams had been doing things illegal all day, double touching, stepping on with hands together, one was literally skipping out off the plate and pitching. So this new pitcher throws her first pitch and suddenly he calls an IP. I figure he must have gotten her for the way she had her feet. Nope, double touch. He hit her probably 3 more times after that and yet he hadnt called it on the other 2 pitchers.


Those are just the highlites.

Please tell me this was on the West side of town.... you know how those west side umpires are......

[PATRICK]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

I really do not know how anyone who has umpired can coach a team when you are dealing with umpires that do not know rules. My daughter asked me to help her coach her junior high team and today was their first game. Here is a short list of what we dealt with.

Umpire showed up 15 minutes late. Checks equipment and pulls 2 of our bats, a Stealth that was my daughters college bat and one of the kids personal bats that is brand new. I ask what is wrong with the bats, he tells me the Stealth has some chips in the paint and the other bat has a dent. I ask why he is tossing the Stealth because of the paint chips and he told me the rules specifically state the bat can have no chips. OK, guess I missed that part of the rule book. The other bat he must have the most calibrated hands on earth because I sure as heck couldnt feel any dents in the brand new bat.

Pregame meeting, I walk out with my daughter and captains to the pregame. Umpire looks at me and says who are you? I tell him I am one of the coaches. He asks if I am the head coach. I tell him no, my daughter is the head coach. He then tells me the pregame is restricted to head coaches and captains only and I have to leave the pregame.

One of our players was literally turning the corner into the dugout and pulled off her helmet as she turned the corner. 1 foot was in dugout the other on the field. He restricted the player to the dugout.

One of the players headband fell out of her back pocket while she was at bat. She picked it up and wrapped it around her wrist. Instead of telling her no she couldnt do that, he issues her and my daughter warnings for jewelry.

In the 3rd inning I was trying to keep score and coach 1st base. Apparently my daughter had put a wrong number on one of the players and we had already gone through the lineup twice and neither I or the other team had caught it. I noticed the number and asked my daughter if she had put in a sub. She said no, the girl bats and walks and 2 more batters come up after her and she has at this point advanced to 3rd. Suddenly the umpire calls time, calls the runner on 3rd out and restricts both the player and my daughter to the dugout. Im just keeping my mouth shut because I couldnt hear what was being said on other side of the field. Umpire goes back behind plate and then tells me I have to move to the 3rd base coaches box. I ask why, he tells me the head coach must be in the 3rd base box. So, I head over to the 3rd base box, my daughter is right there and I ask what happened. She tells me he called the runner out for being out of order and restricted them both to the dugout. I call time and approach the umpire. I told him I never saw or heard the other team make any appeals. He tells me they didnt, he discovered the incorrect number himself. I explain that is an appeal that must be made by the defense. He tells me it is discoverable by the umpire at any time and I dont want to get in a rules discussion with him because he knows every rule. I just walked back to the coaches box.

Pitchers on both teams were illegal all day and no IP calls which I am fine with. Its junior high ball and most of the kids have never played before. Other team brings in a new pitcher. She starts her warmup pitches and puts her left foot on the plate with her right foot back like a lefty would pitch except she is right handed. She then starts her windup and steps forward with her left foot. As I said, pitchers for both teams had been doing things illegal all day, double touching, stepping on with hands together, one was literally skipping out off the plate and pitching. So this new pitcher throws her first pitch and suddenly he calls an IP. I figure he must have gotten her for the way she had her feet. Nope, double touch. He hit her probably 3 more times after that and yet he hadnt called it on the other 2 pitchers.


Those are just the highlites.

No protests?

[RKBUmp]

Originally Posted by azbigdawg

Please tell me this was on the West side of town.... you know how those west side umpires are......

Yes it was west side. Charter school athletic association. It was all I could do to keep my mouth shut as I didnt want to get my kid in any more trouble with the guy. Not only was it many of the kids first game it was also her 1st game as a head coach. I warned her last week about jewelry and that she was likely to run into some overzealous umpires who took things to the extreme. Well, she got it out of the way her very first game.

I was debating if I should contact the charter school association, but the more I think about it someone really needs to straighten this guy out on the rules. I will draft an email later addressing all the bogus calls he made along with rules references and send it to his assigner.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Dakota

All I can say is... good job keeping yourself under control!

Ditto, proving to all that you are an umpire.

[Manny A]

Sounds like you only had one umpire, correct?

Obviously, the guy was a rules nazi, which you typically find in the lower level games where the umpires are relatively new to the program. They focus more on trying to find rule violations than they do on just calling the game, perhaps to impress people on their rules knowledge. Unfortunately, they make up a few to demonstrate their true lack of knowledge. I've worked with a couple of them in my local area. They are the ones who will call a half-dozen illegal pitches, twice as many obstruction calls, a couple of leaving base earlies, and maybe even a uniform violation. When I see them on my assignments, I know I'm in for a long game with a couple of pissed off coaches.

In HS games, I rarely see multiple coaches attend the plate conference. I see it more often at ASA tournaments, for whatever reason. What's the purpose of the second coach standing there listening in? Obviously there is no rule against it, but perhaps your umpire was told in a clinic that only the head coach should participate in the conference. Heck, he may have even brought that from his days of umpiring Little League; who knows. I just wonder why you felt compelled to be out there with your daughter.

For the IP calls, if this umpire was solo, then the missed foot violations are understandable. From his angle, would he have been able to tell the righty pitcher had her pivot foot behind the pitcher's plate? Could he have thought she was in contact with her toes on top?

Not that I'm trying to defend this guy...

[RKBUmp]

In HS games, I rarely see multiple coaches attend the plate conference. I see it more often at ASA tournaments, for whatever reason. What's the purpose of the second coach standing there listening in?

Yes, one umpire. Why wouldnt all coaches want to hear what the umpire had to say first hand? That way there is no translation issues passed down the line. Especially in this case when as I turned to walk away he tells the captains they need to pay close attention becase "we have a lot of stuff to go over" and then proceeds to have a 5 minute pregame.

As I said, it was also my daughters first game as a head coach and I am doing what I can to assist her in learning as quickly as possible. I am not going to be available to her much during the season and she is going to be dealing with trying to coach 19 kids all by herself.

[CecilOne]

Ref: Manny, 9:04 today

Maybe not relatively new, maybe JV for ability or history.

If RKB is trying to help his daughter coach, then why not be with her as much as possible; maybe help clarify a plate conference item. If she accepted the BOO call, then she apparently need his help with rules.

There are games when it is better for more than one coach to hear the ground rules, time limits, etc.

Did the ump only half hear the "head coach must attend" rule? Not an excuse, just another case of mislearning (is that a word?)

[Andy]

Originally Posted by azbigdawg

Please tell me this was on the West side of town.... you know how those west side umpires are......

Easy now....you have more than enough of these guys on the east side of town as well....

[Andy]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Yes it was west side. Charter school athletic association. It was all I could do to keep my mouth shut as I didnt want to get my kid in any more trouble with the guy. Not only was it many of the kids first game it was also her 1st game as a head coach. I warned her last week about jewelry and that she was likely to run into some overzealous umpires who took things to the extreme. Well, she got it out of the way her very first game.

I was debating if I should contact the charter school association, but the more I think about it someone really needs to straighten this guy out on the rules. I will draft an email later addressing all the bogus calls he made along with rules references and send it to his assigner.

Good luck with that letter. If the assignor is who I think it is, I doubt he knows that rules any better and has a history of sending warm bodies out in order to cover all the games.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Ref: Manny, 9:04 today

Maybe not relatively new, maybe JV for ability or history.

If RKB is trying to help his daughter coach, then why not be with her as much as possible; maybe help clarify a plate conference item. If she accepted the BOO call, then she apparently need his help with rules.

There are games when it is better for more than one coach to hear the ground rules, time limits, etc.

Did the ump only half hear the "head coach must attend" rule? Not an excuse, just another case of mislearning (is that a word?)

I personally don't have a problem with multiple coaches at the pre-game, as long as they stand there and are quiet. When these "extras" start carrying on extensive conversations with everything that is put out during the ground rules, run limits, time limits, etc., is when I have a concern. After all, if they're the ones asking all the questions for clarification, then they should be the ones representing the team as head coach, and let the newbies stand quietly and learn.

[Rich]

I'm reading this thread as someone who's about to be a coach for the first time.

It's a team playing in 8U and 10U tournaments this summer (my daughter is one of the players). I can only imagine the (semi?) warm bodies we'll get as umpires.

[RKBUmp]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'm reading this thread as someone who's about to be a coach for the first time.

It's a team playing in 8U and 10U tournaments this summer (my daughter is one of the players). I can only imagine the (semi?) warm bodies we'll get as umpires.

It was bad enough just making the bad calls and really not knowing the rules. What really about put me over the top was when he told me I didnt want to get into a rules discussion with him because he knew all the rules. I just had to walk away, nothing I was going to respond with was going to come out well. And it wasnt like he had a partner he could go verify anything with, so it would have been like arguing with a wall.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I personally don't have a problem with multiple coaches at the pre-game, as long as they stand there and are quiet. When these "extras" start carrying on extensive conversations with everything that is put out during the ground rules, run limits, time limits, etc., is when I have a concern. After all, if they're the ones asking all the questions for clarification, then they should be the ones representing the team as head coach, and let the newbies stand quietly and learn.

So I looked up the rule: (from the definition of conference)
ART. 2 . . . Pregame Conference. A pregame conference is a meeting involving
the umpires and head coaches near home plate. (4-1-2). Team captains may
also attend.

So the clown may have something of a point. The rule says that the head coach and team captains may attend. Team captains aren't defined by rule so I will continue to assume that everyone attending the meeting is either a team captain or a head coach unless I receive local direction to the contrary.
I guess you could use that rule definition to go the way you're saying Manny, but from my perspective I think it's taking the hard way out of the problem. If the problem is you're getting too many interruptions from coaches, just seems you should take more control of the conference. Coach, we're not going to have a rules clinic today. It seems to me that would give you less trouble than announcing that so and so is not entitled to attend the meeting and has to leave.