CR for DP/Flex

[RKBUmp]

You indicated the flex was listed as the pitcher on the lineup. When the DP batted and got on base a CR should not have been allowed as the DP was not listed as the pitcher.

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

You indicated the flex was listed as the pitcher on the lineup. When the DP batted and got on base a CR should not have been allowed as the DP was not listed as the pitcher.

If the HC made the change at the pregame conference inserting the DP as pitcher, then a CR would be allowed and the DP (now the starting pitcher) would be required to pitch to the first batter in the bottom of the 1st.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Visiting team's Flex is listed as pitcher in the lineup. Before breaking up the pregame, visiting coach announces he's going to bat DP for the Flex.
DP gets on base, coach uses CR for DP.

It's a given that, since she was given a CR, the DP is going to have to face at least one batter (as pitcher) in the bottom of the 1st.

Question:
Whose responsibility is it to assure that DP comes out to pitch? The opposing coach? If Flex comes out to pitch instead, is she simply an unreported sub?

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Sorry about that... of course she bats for Flex. I merely meant that, after DP gets on base, coach puts in CR...perhaps without forethought about the bottom of the inning.
At that point, (when CR goes in), it's our responsibility to make the coach aware that he will have to put DP in to pitch for at least a batter, no?
Guess that's just a courtesy on our part.

If, in fact, the coach was entering the DP on defense (and said so), then the DP must pitch to begin the bottom of the 1st.

However, the way I'm reading your second post, the coach did not state that he was entering DP as F1; the coach was apparently assuming that since the DP bats for F1, who is the FLEX, then (in his assumption) DP can have a CR. This should not have been allowed.

How did this transpire, exactly? Who told what to whom and when?

[MD Longhorn]

Cutting through the red herrings and assuming the coach, at the conference, told you that DP would pitch the first inning, the responsibility for ensuring she does so lies with the same people that have the responsibility for ensuring the person listed as pitcher on the lineup card pitches the first inning on any other lineup on any other day. With the same appeal possibilities if it doesn't happen that way.

[jmkupka]

The 2nd sentence of my OP has screwed this all up. Please try to ignore it.

At pregame, coach makes no reference to DP pitching for Flex.

Top of 1st:

Coach: "My DP just got on base. I want to put in a CR"

PU: "Can't do it, coach"
or
PU: "DP will then have to pitch to at least one batter, coach"

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

The 2nd sentence of my OP has screwed this all up. Please try to ignore it.

At pregame, coach makes no reference to DP pitching for Flex.

Top of 1st:

Coach: "My DP just got on base. I want to put in a CR"

PU: "Can't do it, coach"
or
PU: "DP will then have to pitch to at least one batter, coach"

"Can't do it, coach."

[RKBUmp]

Cant do it coach, your DP is not listed on the lineup card as the pitcher.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

The 2nd sentence of my OP has screwed this all up. Please try to ignore it.

At pregame, coach makes no reference to DP pitching for Flex.

Top of 1st:

Coach: "My DP just got on base. I want to put in a CR"

PU: "Can't do it, coach"
or
PU: "DP will then have to pitch to at least one batter, coach"

Originally Posted by RadioBlue

"Can't do it, coach."

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Cant do it coach, your DP is not listed on the lineup card as the pitcher.

Agree. "Can't do that, coach." If the coach asks why, explain that the pitcher needs to earn her way on base to have a CR, and the DP is not the pitcher.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Cutting through the red herrings and assuming the coach, at the conference, told you that DP would pitch the first inning...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the coach shows the FLEX as the pitcher on the lineup card he/she turns in to the PU, I didn't think the coach could then announce a substitution of that pitcher (either by the DP or another player). The rule requires that in the top of the first inning, the pitcher listed in the lineup has to pitch to one batter.

So even if he/she tried to make that change during the conference, the PU should say, "Sorry, coach, but you can't do that."

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the coach shows the FLEX as the pitcher on the lineup card he/she turns in to the PU, I didn't think the coach could then announce a substitution of that pitcher (either by the DP or another player). The rule requires that in the top of the first inning, the pitcher listed in the lineup has to pitch to one batter.

So even if he/she tried to make that change during the conference, the PU should say, "Sorry, coach, but you can't do that."

During the conference you can do it.
After reviewing the line up cards and they become official you then should be asking the coach if they have any changes (usually dropping the Flex who is listed as the pitcher) at this point if the change affects either the Catcher or Pitcher note who the new one is. This is all done before the start of the game which means the player listed as such to start the top of the 1st inning is the only ones allowed a CR.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

During the conference you can do it.
After reviewing the line up cards and they become official you then should be asking the coach if they have any changes (usually dropping the Flex who is listed as the pitcher) at this point if the change affects either the Catcher or Pitcher note who the new one is. This is all done before the start of the game which means the player listed as such to start the top of the 1st inning is the only ones allowed a CR.

I guess I stand corrected then. But that's still not how I read the rule:

8-9-2: In the top of the first inning only, the pitcher and catcher are identified as those players listed on the lineup as the pitcher and catcher; both must face at least the first batter on defense (one pitch).

If Patsy and Cassie is listed as the pitcher and catcher on the official lineup that I accept from the coach at the plate conference, and I say, "These lineups are now official; any changes from this point forward are to be treated as substitutions. Do you have any substitutions that you would like to make at this time?" I always believed the coach can make substitutions for any player except Patsy and Cassie. Of course, the change could be made if either one of them became ill or injured; otherwise, Patsy and Cassie had to pitch and catch for one batter, by rule.

I also don't agree that just because the game hasn't started, those changes are allowed, but once the game starts, they no longer are allowed. There's nothing that I'm aware of that says substitutions at the plate conference are different than substitutions when play has commenced.

So, at what point can the visitors' starting pitcher on the lineup card for be substituted for, despite what 8-9-2 says? Only at the plate conference? After the conference but before coach retreats to the dugout? Right before I call "Play"?