what ifs (dp/flex)

[Little Jimmy]

I'm a what if kind of guy. So no matter how many posts I read on numerous boards covering the many angles of dp/flex, I still end up with " but what if this...?"). So I'm going to expose myself to some possibly obvious answers.

1. Can flex play any defensive position at any time? For example can flex start at F1 then change to F9 with no problem?

2. In the same vein as number 1. Dp in for flex(F1). Can flex reenter as F9 defensively but not offensively ( F9 still batting in her regular spot?).

3. How about this scenario? Flex in for dp( dp has one reentry). Later dp back in for flex (she drops back down to 10th). Still later flex in again for dp( dp now has no reentry). This has flex batting for a now non existent dp. Is there a need to enter a new dp at this point? Or can the offense wait until they're ready and enter a new dp in the future dropping flex down to 10th?

It's no good being dumb if you can't show it. What am I missing?

[TexBlue]

In Federation and ASA:

1. Yes. She can play anywhere at all. No limits on where she plays, just who she plays for.

2. Yes. This is not considered a substitution for F9. She can still bat.

3. There is no need at this point to sub in a new DP. If you want to, you can. If not, just wait until it benefits your team.

[DaveASA/FED]

The DP/Flex is a simple rule that gets VERY confusing when you try to think of the great dream plays. Our state handed out a basic card to explain the majority of the rule. I am trying to find the link to that card, it is good to laminate and carry it with you to the games.

The basics of the DP are they bat and they can play defense for anyone BUT the Flex without having a substitution. So you can have the Flex and the DP on defense at the same time. And just like with any defensive players they can swap defensive positions at any time with no penalty, or substitution charged. This is powerfull as if your ss is booting the ball, put the DP in at ss and bring Susie over to have a nice talk with the coach, Susie still bats and there is no substitution charged. Next inning your 3rd basewoman needs a nice talking to so DP plays 3rd and Becky gets a talking to, still no substitution is charged. So the only time you get a substitution charged is if the Flex does not play defense, and the DP does.

Now on offense the DP always bats and the flex never bats. If the Flex does bat they MUST bat in the DP's batting position. Basically these two players are locked into the same batting position. So the Flex and DP can NEVER be on offense at the same time.

I think one thing that makes it easier to see how the DP/Flex option works is to look at offense and defense seperately. Like I mentioned above defensive subs are unlimited using the DP (as long as the Flex still plays defense). Offense has no free subs. And the DP and Flex are tied together so only one of them can bat at a time, and if it is the Flex, your DP has been removed from the game. This is hard for some to get their minds around, they are so use to having a sub anytime someone leaves the defense and sits on the bench. This rule locks the batting order but leaves the DP free to roam (as long as they report when required, and don't replace the Flex) on defense.

[Andy]

Jimmy,

One thing that I use that helps me with the DP/FLEX is to think that the team is using 10 defensive players, one of the defensive poisitions being called "bench". A team can make defensive switches at will, without being charged a substitution. The only time that the umpire needs to know about the switch is if the DP plays defense in the field and the FLEX is on the bench.

[CecilOne]

wrt "2. In the same vein as number 1. Dp in for flex(F1). Can flex reenter as F9 defensively but not offensively ( F9 still batting in her regular spot?)."

After the first change, the DP (e.g. #30) is both DP and FLEX and the FLEX (e.g., #12) is not in the game. For the original FLEX #12 to play F9, she would have to reenter for #30 as FLEX or FLEX/DP.

If #12 reentered as FLEX only with #30 remaining as DP, #12 could switch defense positions with F9.
If #12 reentered for #30 as FLEX/DP, #12 could switch defense positions with F9, but both would still bat.
If #12 reentered as FLEX only, the DP could play defense as F9 and the original F9 would still bat. That's the way to move the F9 player to the bench.

CAVEAT: This came up on the NFHS forum and Dakota and I did not agree.

ADDED 3/17: Now that I reread the rule in NFHS and ASA and the even clearer NCAA book (instead of what I thought I heard at meetings), I agree with Dakota and stand corrected on my earlier comment.

[Edited by CecilOne on Mar 17th, 2004 at 02:15 PM]

[Dakota]

Ok, taking #2 as a stand-alone situation (as I think Little Jimmy intended)...

2. Dp in for flex(F1). Can flex reenter as F9 defensively but not offensively ( F9 still batting in her regular spot?).

We have a lineup with DP/FLEX. FLEX started at F1. Team is going out on defense. Coach approaches PU and says, "I'm entering my DP to pitch for FLEX. And, I want to reenter my FLEX in right field. My starting F9 will still be batting."

I'd say, "Hold on there, coach. Are you sure that is what you want to do?" The move the coach wants to make is legal, but he has unnecessarily burned a reentry for his starting FLEX.

Here is what he should have said. "I'm bringing the DP in to pitch and moving the FLEX to F9. My starting F9 will sit out this half inning, but still bat." You may want to ask a clarifying question, or just accept at face value what the coach said - no one is leaving the game, DP is playing defense for a player other than FLEX, and the batting order remains unchanged.

Cecil, what response were you referring to where you and I disagreed on this situation?

[CecilOne]

OK, if instead of:
"I'm bringing the DP in to pitch and moving the FLEX to F9. My starting F9 will sit out this half inning, but still bat. "

it was:
"The DP is playing defense for F9 and then the FLEX and F9 are switching positions.

not " flex reenter as F9 " because the FLEX can only reenter for DP

and not "bringing the DP in to pitch and moving the FLEX to F9 " because the sequence of DP pitching (which is the FLEX position) replaces the FLEX who would have to reenter as F9 which can't be done.

As I understand the rule, when either the FLEX or DP replace the other, the replaced one is out of the game and the other is one player in both positions (like any regular player).

[mick]

Originally posted by CecilOne
...As I understand the rule, when either the FLEX or DP replace the other, the replaced one is out of the game and the other is one player in both positions (like any regular player).

CecilOne,
I agree with your understanding, but we should not lose sight of the fact that once such a substitution is made we now only have nine players on that team. (ie, Neither the DP, and never the FLEX, is permitted to play the field for other players, like the DP could (before such substitution), and still preserve the batting order until the other is reentered.)
mick