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Old Mon Mar 03, 2014, 07:44pm
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overthrow

Are these plays ruled the same? Differences between ASA/NFHS?

R1 on 2B, R2 on 1B. B3 hits a ground ball base hit to F7 who throws to F2 attempting to retire R1. At the time of the throw, R1 has already rounded 3B, R2 has rounded 2B.

In
a) the throw goes over the fence behind F2.
b) the throw just ticks off F2's glove and then deflects off the OD batter's (who was 3B-line extended instructing R1 to slide) helmet to dead ball territory
c) the throw is completely missed by F2 but deflects off OD batter's helmet to dead ball territory
d) the throw is completely missed by F2 and hits the OD batter in the stomach and drops at her feet and she then retreats from the area in which the ball is resting

Thanx.
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Old Tue Mar 04, 2014, 10:35am
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in b) and c), - unless the OD batter deliberately did something to interfere I have a normal dead ball on the overthrow, with the appropriate awards. d) sounds like a live ball and keep playing to me - this is a YHTBT for sure

a) a normal OT into DBT

a) b) c) - both runners score

EDIT: Now I'm thinking about d)...my rule book is out in my car, its 10 degrees out, and I ain't going out just for that....:P my instinct - probably wrong - still is keep play going...we can always send runners back after conferring with my partner. It would be tough to essentially penalize the offense for a crappy throw by the defense...
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Last edited by ASA/NYSSOBLUE; Tue Mar 04, 2014 at 10:43am.
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Old Tue Mar 04, 2014, 10:41am
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a, b, c - R1 and R2 score; BR awarded 2nd unless the throw was made after BR had passed first, in which case BR is awarded 3rd.

d - play on.
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Old Tue Mar 04, 2014, 12:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu View Post
Are these plays ruled the same? Differences between ASA/NFHS?

R1 on 2B, R2 on 1B. B3 hits a ground ball base hit to F7 who throws to F2 attempting to retire R1. At the time of the throw, R1 has already rounded 3B, R2 has rounded 2B.

In
a) the throw goes over the fence behind F2.
b) the throw just ticks off F2's glove and then deflects off the OD batter's (who was 3B-line extended instructing R1 to slide) helmet to dead ball territory
c) the throw is completely missed by F2 but deflects off OD batter's helmet to dead ball territory
d) the throw is completely missed by F2 and hits the OD batter in the stomach and drops at her feet and she then retreats from the area in which the ball is resting

Thanx.
The only difference is the ball does not go DBT in d.

The NFHS wording is generic enough the d could be INT.
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Old Tue Mar 04, 2014, 02:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
The NFHS wording is generic enough the d could be INT.
In the scenario described in the OP, not sure how that's possible. NFHS rules allow the ODB to leave the circle to direct runners coming home.

Would you rule INT if F1 were backing up the play, and the ODB gets hit, preventing F1 from fielding the throw and possibly making a play on R2? Or does the provision of the ODB to direct runners protect her from something unintentional?
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Old Tue Mar 04, 2014, 05:09pm
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Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
Would you rule INT if F1 were backing up the play, and the ODB gets hit, preventing F1 from fielding the throw and possibly making a play on R2?
My point is that the NFHS wording does not say intentional or any exception for directing traffic.
Permission to leave the ODC is not the same as permission to impede.
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Old Thu Mar 06, 2014, 11:44am
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Can you reference the NFHS wording you're referring to?

Thanx.
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Old Thu Mar 06, 2014, 12:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tru_in_blu View Post
can you reference the nfhs wording you're referring to?
Thanx.
8-6-16
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Old Thu Mar 06, 2014, 01:14pm
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Thanx. I'd have a hard time ruling INT when the ball simply hits the ODB. I'd view it as similar to an overthrow hitting a coach in the coach's box. If coach (or ODB) did nothing after getting hit with the ball, I think I'd have nothing.

They didn't even include Art. 16 in the casebook in 2014 or 2012.
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Old Thu Mar 06, 2014, 03:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
My point is that the NFHS wording does not say intentional or any exception for directing traffic.
Permission to leave the ODC is not the same as permission to impede.
I think you really need to go back to the basic definition of interference, specifically to the reference of the word "act". The ODB is allowed to leave the circle to direct runners, and if she just happens to get hit with a thrown ball that gets by the catcher, there is no "act" that she did to cause any interference. No different than when a base coach is out of the coach's box while directing runners, and he/she gets hit with a throw.
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