Need help on a ruling

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Woodchuck
As is in most organizations rules the player being played on is out if in your judgement you had a chance to make a play (out), if not you send them back to base they had legally attained when the ball was declared dead.

I don't understand this answer. Are you saying the original call was correct if the defensive player had a chance to make a play?

[greymule]

I don't think a discarded bat in foul territory creates a blocked ball by the offense when it is hit by a throw. With a blocked ball, runners would be sent back to the last base touched.

Other team bats outside the dugout, or any other equipment left lying around, yes. But not the bat the batter hit the ball with. Definitely not in ASA. If USSSA calls the ball in play if it hits a discarded bat in fair territory and calls the ball blocked if it hits a discarded bat in foul territory, that would be a very unusual rule.

[Dakota]

Maybe Woodchuck is thinking about a batted ball??

[Woodchuck]

Dakota,

The answear is yes if you are using USSSA. It could vary with other associations.

[Roger Greene]

Speaking USSSA. The bat discarded by the batter is not lose equipment, and may not cause a ball to become blocked. (This also applies to the catcher's mask/helmet.)

The only time the batter may interfere with her discarded bat is if it is discarded in such a way as to interfere with a fair batted ball, or to intentionally prevent a batted ball from becoming fair.

The USSSA rule is the same as all other codes that I am aware of.

Roger Greene

[Skahtboi]

Originally posted by Roger Greene
Speaking USSSA. The bat discarded by the batter is not lose equipment, and may not cause a ball to become blocked. (This also applies to the catcher's mask/helmet.)

The only time the batter may interfere with her discarded bat is if it is discarded in such a way as to interfere with a fair batted ball, or to intentionally prevent a batted ball from becoming fair.

The USSSA rule is the same as all other codes that I am aware of.

Roger Greene

Right you are Roger!

[Woodchuck]

USSSA Rule 2, Section 11. EQUIPMENT shall not be allowed to remain on the playing field, during the playing of the game, either on Fair or Foul Territory, with the exception of an official warm up bat or official warm-up device which may be kept in proximity to the on-deck circle during a team's turn at bat.
EFFECT Sec. 11. A bat dropped by the batter-runner in Foul territory, or any mask, cap, etc. dropped incidental to making a play, will be considered as foreign to the normal playing area, and Foul ball rulings will be made accordingly.

What am I missing? I don't have a copy of ASA rules.

[CecilOne]

A big welcome to Woodchuck, a great contributor to the NFHS forum ! !

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by Dakota
... snip .. On a contrary note, however, I think we live in too much fear and trembling regarding lawsuits.
... snip ...

We've agreed on that before, but not everyone does, so I'll stay with caution.

[Roger Greene]

Originally posted by Woodchuck
[B EFFECT Sec. 11. A bat dropped by the batter-runner in Foul territory, or any mask, cap, etc. dropped incidental to making a play, will be considered as foreign to the normal playing area, and Foul ball rulings will be made accordingly.

What am I missing? I don't have a copy of ASA rules. [/B]

You are apparently attempting to extend fair/foul calls on balls contacting a discarded bat or mask to blocked ball, base awards, and inteference rules.

I don't have my books with me today, but you might want to review the definitions of blocked balls and lose equipment.

Roger Greene

[TruBlu]

2003 ASA rules, POE #17: Official equipment which may be within PLAYABLE territory with no penalty includes the batter's bat, the catcher's mask, umpire paraphernalia, any helmet which has inadvertently fallen off on an offensive or defensive player during the course of play or any equipment belonging to a person assigned to the game.

[greymule]

Woodchuck: If the batter drops the bat in foul territory and the ball rolls up against it, the ball is foul. It cannot deflect off the bat and become fair. For that purpose, the bat is foreign to the ground.

But a throw that hits that bat is in play. If it caroms into the dugout, that's tough luck for the defense. If it caroms straight to the catcher so that he can put the runner out, that's tough luck for the offense.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Woodchuck
USSSA Rule 2, Section 11. EQUIPMENT shall not be allowed to remain on the playing field, during the playing of the game, either on Fair or Foul Territory, with the exception of an official warm up bat or official warm-up device which may be kept in proximity to the on-deck circle during a team's turn at bat.
EFFECT Sec. 11. A bat dropped by the batter-runner in Foul territory, or any mask, cap, etc. dropped incidental to making a play, will be considered as foreign to the normal playing area, and Foul ball rulings will be made accordingly.

What am I missing? I don't have a copy of ASA rules.

What you are missing is the distinction between a fair / foul call on a batted ball and ruling a thrown ball blocked / ruling interference on a thrown ball.

If the bat is dropped in foul territory, and the batted ball hits the bat, then you have a foul ball.

However, if a thrown ball hits that same bat in the same place, you have a bad throw, live ball, play on.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Originally posted by Bluefoot
Regarding some of the latest posts in this thread, are you saying that as PU's we should never move a bat during a play? When possible and when it does not affect me getting into position to see/make calls, I have been moving it out of the way of possible baserunners coming home. So are you saying that it's better to avoid a possible lawsuit against me by not touching the bat at all, and leaving it wherever it is, even if it's right next to home plate and the runner may slide into it, trip over it, etc.? I've never thought about it that way. I've always thought about getting the bat out of the way for a possible play.

I kick the bat out of the way also.

Whiskers quote:
He's right. You are not the bat boy just as you are not
the grounds keeper....

If they are going to sue you for moving it... they are just as likely, if not more likely to sue you, because there is more opportunity for interaction, for leaving it there.

Once the ball is hit I don't take my eyes off the play and I very, very rarely bend over to pick-up a bat. I gently kick it away from the plate area, where a play is about to potentially occur. I do this first thing after a hit when I think a play may be coming to home. If I don't have opportunity (say a runner is coming in from 3rd without potential for a play, I will tell him/her as they run by to "Watch out for the bat." They generally return to pick it up after touching home.

I am the only one on the field getting paid. If anyone gets sued for safety issues, it will likely be me. I feel moving the bat out of the runner's way is an act of creating a safe area for running, sliding, tagging, etc.

I am not a batboy, but I definitely don't want anyone to get hurt during my game. I move the bat when I can.

No offense to anyone and despite some of the comments to the contrary, I higly recommend that you also create a safe zone around the plate, when you can, by kicking the bat 5-10 feet away from the foul line.



I honestly don't think you are likely to be sued for leaving it or for moving it. As someone stated, it is not your responsibility. And I wouldn't give an iota of credence to the idea that you will be sued because you moved it. To each their own.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
And I wouldn't give an iota of credence to the idea that you will be sued because you moved it. To each their own.

You can be sued for anything.

Winning... that's another matter! I seriously doubt such a suit would be successful.