The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 27, 2013, 08:48am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
OBS call

Well, both umpires had the call. 3BU did it correctly, PU, IMO, had it right, but not the proper mechanics, even for MLB

Play is here

BTW, this is also a great example as to why you discuss issue with one team representative and that is it. You ended up with 6 umpires providing personal explanations for 20 people. Should have discussed it with the manager and left the field
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 27, 2013, 10:48am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
Well, both umpires had the call. 3BU did it correctly, PU, IMO, had it right, but not the proper mechanics, even for MLB

Play is here

BTW, this is also a great example as to why you discuss issue with one team representative and that is it. You ended up with 6 umpires providing personal explanations for 20 people. Should have discussed it with the manager and left the field
Do you think the leg-raising is what decided the call?
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 27, 2013, 12:17pm
wife loves the goatee...
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Beach
Posts: 255
The way I am hearing virtually everyone who will comment for the record explain the play, if Middlebrooks had been killed on the play and his body was tripped over by Craig, the call is the same.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 27, 2013, 02:05pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: NY
Posts: 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
Well, both umpires had the call. 3BU did it correctly, PU, IMO, had it right, but not the proper mechanics, even for MLB

Play is here

BTW, this is also a great example as to why you discuss issue with one team representative and that is it. You ended up with 6 umpires providing personal explanations for 20 people. Should have discussed it with the manager and left the field
What are the proper mechanics for MLB?
__________________
Kill the Clones. Let God sort them out.
No one likes an OOJ (Over-officious jerk).
Realistic officiating does the sport good.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 27, 2013, 02:34pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 872
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRJ1960 View Post
The way I am hearing virtually everyone who will comment for the record explain the play, if Middlebrooks had been killed on the play and his body was tripped over by Craig, the call is the same.
Very funny.

Rita
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 27, 2013, 02:45pm
wife loves the goatee...
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Beach
Posts: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rita C View Post
Very funny.

Rita
But accurate.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 27, 2013, 06:00pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 1,640
Quote:
Originally Posted by EsqUmp View Post
What are the proper mechanics for MLB?
Same as most softball. When the obstructed runner is tagged out the ball is dead, the umpire is to call time and then award the base.

DeMuth just gave a safe signal, then pointed at third base.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 27, 2013, 06:25pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Twin Cities MN
Posts: 8,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by BretMan View Post
Same as most softball. When the obstructed runner is tagged out the ball is dead, the umpire is to call time and then award the base.

DeMuth just gave a safe signal, then pointed at third base.
While the mechanic was incorrect, what he did probably did a better job than the correct mechanics would have of indicating what the call was to the millions watching (as well as to the talking heads).
__________________
Tom
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 27, 2013, 07:14pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
While the mechanic was incorrect, what he did probably did a better job than the correct mechanics would have of indicating what the call was to the millions watching (as well as to the talking heads).
At no point did the PU indicate OBS. And MLB clearly states that when there is a play on an obstructed runner, the umpire shall call "time" with both hand overhead. This isn't an interpretation, it isn't part of any "given" mechanics, the rule dictates the umpire shall act in this manner and instead, it looked like a vertically- challenged umpire trying to point over everyone toward the spot the OBS occurred and the time of the call and when he should have been declaring "time".

IOW, the umpire is to kill the play, then make the ruling. In this case, when two umpire make a call on the same runner, they should get together to ensure they are on the same page with the same call.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 27, 2013, 07:56pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Woodstock, GA; Atlanta area
Posts: 2,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by EsqUmp View Post
What are the proper mechanics for MLB?
To my knowledge, the only difference between softball and baseball in this mechanic is that softball umpires declare a "dead ball", then administer the effect of the obstruction; in baseball, they call "time", to make it a dead ball, then administer the effect.

Now, the effects may be different; but the mechanic is if the obstructed runner is apparently out when protected, the umpire is to kill the play (dead ball or time called), NOT declare out nor safe on the initial play.
__________________
Steve
ASA/ISF/NCAA/NFHS/PGF
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 27, 2013, 10:15pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
Well, both umpires had the call. 3BU did it correctly, PU, IMO, had it right, but not the proper mechanics, even for MLB

Play is here

BTW, this is also a great example as to why you discuss issue with one team representative and that is it. You ended up with 6 umpires providing personal explanations for 20 people. Should have discussed it with the manager and left the field
Agreed!
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 28, 2013, 08:36am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
While the mechanic was incorrect, what he did probably did a better job than the correct mechanics would have of indicating what the call was to the millions watching (as well as to the talking heads).
I disagree ... I think he muddied things by calling safe when he was not (yet) safe. I still don't think Craig has touched home plate. Perhaps he does if the mechanics are done right ... and perhaps if he still doesn't, Boston appeals correctly if the mechanics are done right... but we'll never know.

Also - PU did not know what award 3BU had in mind - so he's not the one that awards home.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 28, 2013, 09:05am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Twin Cities MN
Posts: 8,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
At no point did the PU indicate OBS. And MLB clearly states that when there is a play on an obstructed runner, the umpire shall call "time" with both hand overhead. This isn't an interpretation, it isn't part of any "given" mechanics, the rule dictates the umpire shall act in this manner and instead, it looked like a vertically- challenged umpire trying to point over everyone toward the spot the OBS occurred and the time of the call and when he should have been declaring "time".

IOW, the umpire is to kill the play, then make the ruling. In this case, when two umpire make a call on the same runner, they should get together to ensure they are on the same page with the same call.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
I disagree ... I think he muddied things by calling safe when he was not (yet) safe. I still don't think Craig has touched home plate. Perhaps he does if the mechanics are done right ... and perhaps if he still doesn't, Boston appeals correctly if the mechanics are done right... but we'll never know.

Also - PU did not know what award 3BU had in mind - so he's not the one that awards home.
None of the fans watching (well, few of the fans watching) even know the difference between interference and obstruction, let alone the correct mechanic or what the rule says the umpire should do. They don't care, either, given the on-going discussion among the fans / media, where the argument that the fielder was just doing what he was supposed to do, etc., etc... (latest being Mike Golic on ESPN's Mike and Mike this morning).

What the PU did was communicate "runner safe due to the call my partner made at 3rd." Should he have done that? Well, by the book (or even by sound umpiring standards), no. Were there things that could have happened (e.g. Boston appealing) that would have resulted in a big mess? Absolutely.

But, no one watching was confused as to what the call was or why. JMO, of course.

I haven't heard a single fan, commentator, talking head, sports show host, etc., who was confused about what the call was.

Whereas killing the ball and conferring with the 3rd base umpire on the award.... really.... how do you think THAT would have worked out in the fan-base, media, etc.?

My point was that the way he did it better communicated to the fans what was going on, and I'll add to that: it also better sold the call than the correct mechanics would have.

Again, JMO.
__________________
Tom

Last edited by Dakota; Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 09:16am.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 28, 2013, 09:24am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,425
OK AGREE, but this forum is also about improving ourselves as umpires and knowing our mechanics.

My leg-raising question still stands.

Found it interesting that in 4 games of 14&U, 12&U on Saturday; there was only one OBS.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 28, 2013, 09:30am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Plymouth, MN
Posts: 741
Send a message via Yahoo to MNBlue
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
At no point did the PU indicate OBS. And MLB clearly states that when there is a play on an obstructed runner, the umpire shall call "time" with both hand overhead. This isn't an interpretation, it isn't part of any "given" mechanics, the rule dictates the umpire shall act in this manner and instead, it looked like a vertically- challenged umpire trying to point over everyone toward the spot the OBS occurred and the time of the call and when he should have been declaring "time".

IOW, the umpire is to kill the play, then make the ruling. In this case, when two umpire make a call on the same runner, they should get together to ensure they are on the same page with the same call.
Not to cut the PU any slack, because he is working at a much higher level with much more on the line than anything I have ever officiated, but I heard yesterday that the was the first obstruction call in MLB since 2004. It obviously isn't a mechanic they use very often.
__________________
Mark

NFHS, NCAA, NAFA
"If the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule?" Anton Chigurh - "No Country for Old Men"
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
State Playoffs - Call or No Call Blindolbat Basketball 33 Sun Mar 10, 2013 08:19am
When the obvious call isn't the right call Don Mueller Baseball 28 Mon Aug 20, 2007 01:46am
ASA OBS call then no call leads to ejection DaveASA/FED Softball 28 Mon Jul 12, 2004 03:52pm
To call or not to call foul ball DaveASA/FED Softball 11 Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:47am
More Pacers/Pistons call/no call OverAndBack Basketball 36 Thu Jun 03, 2004 07:01pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:53pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1