U3 Button-Hook

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by shagpal

The downfall of an empire.

maybe so, maybe not. but if one chooses not to use the prescribed mechanics for what ever association (GB) they are working for, because they 'think it is ridiculous', does that umpire also pick and choose what rule set or individual rules they will enforce as well? Mechanics are put in place for a reason and if one umpire on the crew chooses to not at the very least, try to adhere to the mechanics, that brings the whole crew down as that umpire's partners now how to worry about where you are (or not) on the field, instead of worrying about their own positioning.

[shagpal]

Oh, I am not suggesting he should not follow orders. That is up to the individual receiving the orders, and the one giving the orders. We can always walk away from what doesn't make sense, or not depending on where one wants to be.

I am suggesting we can be thinking umpires and consider better mechanics. Most that do have moved on. In 3-man, and no chase, hooking only serves to setup your calling position. It doesn't affect rotation.

$400 is alot of games to learn NOT to think, be stuck in that mode, then having unlearn it later.

Originally Posted by okla21fan

maybe so, maybe not. but if one chooses not to use the prescribed mechanics for what ever association (GB) they are working for, because they 'think it is ridiculous', does that umpire also pick and choose what rule set or individual rules they will enforce as well? Mechanics are put in place for a reason and if one umpire on the crew chooses to not at the very least, try to adhere to the mechanics, that brings the whole crew down as that umpire's partners now how to worry about where you are (or not) on the field, instead of worrying about their own positioning.

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by shagpal

$400 is alot of games to learn NOT to think, be stuck in that mode, then having unlearn it later.

I guess the same can be said about going to one of the numerous 'NCAA assigner' camps When said assigners know full and well that 75% of the particiaptes well never sniff the close shop.

[shagpal]

I can't disagree about those camps.

One that ran the camps even admitted lamenting about the "camp whores", guys that come back year after year, not improving, hoping only to get games for time and money spent at the camp.

When it comes to those we shake our heads at, they are everywhere, not just at the bottom.

Originally Posted by okla21fan

I guess the same can be said about going to one of the numerous 'NCAA assigner' camps When said assigners know full and well that 75% of the particiaptes well never sniff the close shop.

[xtremeump]

Originally Posted by shagpal

Oh, I am not suggesting he should not follow orders. That is up to the individual receiving the orders, and the one giving the orders. We can always walk away from what doesn't make sense, or not depending on where one wants to be.

I am suggesting we can be thinking umpires and consider better mechanics. Most that do have moved on. In 3-man, and no chase, hooking only serves to setup your calling position. It doesn't affect rotation.

$400 is alot of games to learn NOT to think, be stuck in that mode, then having unlearn it later.

Sorry, you and I must have posted at the same time. Good Post.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by shagpal

....I am suggesting we can be thinking umpires and consider better mechanics. Most that do have moved on....

I agree with you in theory...advanced umpires should be allowed to use advanced mechanics that are potentially better for the game and level they are calling.

Where this falls apart is, who or how is it determined which umpires are advanced? This is especially true when you have a collection of umpires from across a wide area.

Case in point..ASA 18Gold National a few years back. 40 umpires from all regions of the country. I posed the question to the UIC...why can't we (advanced umpires) use the advanced mechanics at this level?

The response I got back was...How do you know all of the umpires here are "advanced" umpires? We have three umpires here who have told me (UIC) that they have NEVER worked a three umpire game. Granted that should fall back on those that sent them to this tournament knowing that the majority of the tournament was going to be in the three umpire system, but the fact remains that had two experienced and advanced umpires been working with one of these three and tried to use the advanced mechanics, it would have screwed things up even more than they already were.

I don't necessarily like the ASA position of one set of basic mechanics for the entire umpire population, but I understand the reasoning behind it.

[shagpal]

Andy, we can all agree that advanced mechanics are not for everyone. If it was, it would no longer be advanced mechanics, it would just be normal, as in for the masses, which it is not. The ASA fulfills its purpose.

For some, an ASA FP camp is as advanced as it might get, and I think there is a place for that. For others, it might be Steve Arnold's Next Level camp. Whatever fits, I say use it, but any level deserves questioning and challenge to keep it on its toes.

One thing that gets me how tolerant college umpires were to my ASA mechanics but the sheer intolerance of the nazi ASA and its devout gestapo attack cabal.

The other side might be greener, but it isn't the grass.

Originally Posted by Andy

I agree with you in theory...advanced umpires should be allowed to use advanced mechanics that are potentially better for the game and level they are calling.

Where this falls apart is, who or how is it determined which umpires are advanced? This is especially true when you have a collection of umpires from across a wide area.

Case in point..ASA 18Gold National a few years back. 40 umpires from all regions of the country. I posed the question to the UIC...why can't we (advanced umpires) use the advanced mechanics at this level?

The response I got back was...How do you know all of the umpires here are "advanced" umpires? We have three umpires here who have told me (UIC) that they have NEVER worked a three umpire game. Granted that should fall back on those that sent them to this tournament knowing that the majority of the tournament was going to be in the three umpire system, but the fact remains that had two experienced and advanced umpires been working with one of these three and tried to use the advanced mechanics, it would have screwed things up even more than they already were.

I don't necessarily like the ASA position of one set of basic mechanics for the entire umpire population, but I understand the reasoning behind it.