ASA Should Be Ashamed

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

My theory is purely economics. ... The local guys have ASA and State HS hats, and I keep harping on not wearing logo'ed hats. They won't purchase them. Most wear a plain jacket, so the shirt really isn't an issue. But I have made numerous attempts to change the hats.

Really? You can get plain hats at Academy for $6. This can't be the reason.

Personally, I have TWO shirts and TWO hats with the ASA logo - and more than 10 shirts and at least 6 hats with no logo at all (and, of course, one TASO hat). I find myself more prepared for whatever may come along if I have unlogo'd gear handy.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Really? You can get plain hats at Academy for $6. This can't be the reason.

Working with unlogo'ed hat is relatively new here. We had an abundance of ASA tournaments in the past, and high school ball. Therefore, that was the gear. So when this tournament came around, most couldn't/wouldn't lay out the necessary expense to get plain clothing.

Plus, I didn't say it was the only reason, just another reason. It is all systemic anyway, umpires that do care about not looking like a clown are those that put the time, effort and money into becoming better.

[shagpal]

I have yet to see an NCAA umpire wear NCAA or conference uniform, HS umpire wear NFHS or assoc uniform, USSSA umpire wear utrip uniform, or any other sanction umpire wear uniform out of sanction. BUT, I frequently see ASA umpires wearing ASA at non-ASA specific sanction events. I say its an ASA and ASA umpire problem, but you insist otherwise.

Originally Posted by Big Slick

Working with unlogo'ed hat is relatively new here. We had an abundance of ASA tournaments in the past, and high school ball. Therefore, that was the gear. So when this tournament came around, most couldn't/wouldn't lay out the necessary expense to get plain clothing.

Plus, I didn't say it was the only reason, just another reason. It is all systemic anyway, umpires that do care about not looking like a clown are those that put the time, effort and money into becoming better.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by shagpal

I have yet to see an NCAA umpire wear NCAA or conference uniform, HS umpire wear NFHS or assoc uniform, USSSA umpire wear utrip uniform, or any other sanction umpire wear uniform out of sanction. BUT, I frequently see ASA umpires wearing ASA at non-ASA specific sanction events. I say its an ASA and ASA umpire problem, but you insist otherwise.

For once I somewhat agree with you. I don't see NCAA gear worn elsewhere. I don't see USSSA worn elsewhere. I DO see, however, the TASO hat worn elsewhere --- usually by 1st year high school guys who think they are big-timing the others by showing up wearing it. Interestingly, by the 2nd year these same guys realize how stupid they looked and cut it out.

On the other hand, at least around here, it's severely frowned upon by assignors to allow people to wear the ASA hat at a non-ASA event... and if you try wearing one at a NFSA event, it's likely to get you booted for the entire weekend. That said, on the RARE occasion that someone wears something they are not supposed to, it's ASA gear. I suspect, at least in the cases of these rare individuals, that it's because ASA is the only organization training newbies - and the newbies are the ones that don't know any better until someone tells them.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by shagpal

I have yet to see an NCAA umpire wear NCAA or conference uniform, HS umpire wear NFHS or assoc uniform, USSSA umpire wear utrip uniform, or any other sanction umpire wear uniform out of sanction. BUT, I frequently see ASA umpires wearing ASA at non-ASA specific sanction events. I say its an ASA and ASA umpire problem, but you insist otherwise.

Well, I've seen umpires from NY wear hats, jackets and shirts with NY specific logos while not even in NY. And even better, they wear baseball associations for softball games. I've seen guys wear high school uniforms out of association (and for multiple sports, including basketball and football). This isn't a problem unique to ASA logo gear. ASA may be more prevalent, but it is far from unique.

My point: It says more about the umpire rather than an association.

[shagpal]

OK, now I understand, you are putting that emphasis on the umpires. I won't disagree with you, umpires doesn't get a free pass. I am putting far more emphasis on the ASA than most staunch ASA guys can stomach, but that's just me and makes for great diversity of viewpoints.

My point is, the ASA owns its problems like it or not, and taking an oblivious approach and passing the buck doesn't help matters. So many give the ASA a free pass for what is so obviously self made problems.

I sometimes wonder that those that staunchly defend the ASA aren't really the problem.

Originally Posted by Big Slick

Well, I've seen umpires from NY wear hats, jackets and shirts with NY specific logos while not even in NY. And even better, they wear baseball associations for softball games. I've seen guys wear high school uniforms out of association (and for multiple sports, including basketball and football). This isn't a problem unique to ASA logo gear. ASA may be more prevalent, but it is far from unique.

My point: It says more about the umpire rather than an association.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by shagpal

OK, now I understand, you are putting that emphasis on the umpires. I won't disagree with you, umpires doesn't get a free pass. I am putting far more emphasis on the ASA than most staunch ASA guys can stomach, but that's just me and makes for great diversity of viewpoints.

My point is, the ASA owns its problems like it or not, and taking an oblivious approach and passing the buck doesn't help matters. So many give the ASA a free pass for what is so obviously self made problems.

I sometimes wonder that those that staunchly defend the ASA aren't really the problem.

I'm hardly a "staunch ASA guy". Last year, I didn't even register with ASA.

However, as a front-line witness to the sanctioning food fight that went on here over the previous 5+ years, "ASA" (including ASA national all the way down to the state commissioner) has no authority over the individual umpire. He is an independent contractor and he owns his own gear. He can wear his shirt and hat anywhere he wants to. The ASA official-dom cannot even "punish" bad actors by not assigning them games or tournaments, since that is all done through independent assignors, who work agreements with the leagues and the tournaments, not with ASA. The state commissioner tried to lay down the law regarding ASA-logoed gear being used at non-ASA games, but, in reality, he had no law to lay down. The only hammer the ASA has is with their championship play assignments.

What do expect ASA to actually do? They don't control the umpires. They don't control the leagues. They don't control most of the tournaments. They don't control the assignors. The "don't care" umpires who wear whatever they have to any ol' game don't want to do an ASA national anyway, so even that "stick" is a wet noodle to them.

NCAA & the NCAA conferences have a much bigger stick, since they control the game assignments (I think... college guys here can correct/elaborate if they wish). You can't really compare schools (college or HS) to independent leagues sanctioned through ASA.

And, nobody would wear USSSA shirts to a non-USSSA event because, well, they are RED!

[shagpal]

In think you are touching on the exact area I have issue with, so you are not so far from my disbelief as you thought.

How does the ASA function properly when it is so divorced and disconnected from the games? My point is that it doesn't, and the fault is its own. The structure it setup to isolate itself from the people locally was decided entirely from within. The distance it has created is its own choosing, you can't blame the umpires for that, but we all pay that price.

What I find so precious about the ASA it is so entirely inclusive, everyone is welcome to participate in softball. But it does so not at its own expense, but everyone else's. This cannot be a one size fits all, at least not possible the way I see it. SP and FP are two different games culturally, so different treatment is appropriate. Stricter governance and control for the good of the game is not that hard, unless you just don't care.

But just blaming umpires, that won't get you very far when no one is listening. Perhaps its not the "don't care" umpires, but the don't care governing body that is the problem.

Originally Posted by Dakota

I'm hardly a "staunch ASA guy". Last year, I didn't even register with ASA.

However, as a front-line witness to the sanctioning food fight that went on here over the previous 5+ years, "ASA" (including ASA national all the way down to the state commissioner) has no authority over the individual umpire. He is an independent contractor and he owns his own gear. He can wear his shirt and hat anywhere he wants to. The ASA official-dom cannot even "punish" bad actors by not assigning them games or tournaments, since that is all done through independent assignors, who work agreements with the leagues and the tournaments, not with ASA. The state commissioner tried to lay down the law regarding ASA-logoed gear being used at non-ASA games, but, in reality, he had no law to lay down. The only hammer the ASA has is with their championship play assignments.

What do expect ASA to actually do? They don't control the umpires. They don't control the leagues. They don't control most of the tournaments. They don't control the assignors. The "don't care" umpires who wear whatever they have to any ol' game don't want to do an ASA national anyway, so even that "stick" is a wet noodle to them.

NCAA & the NCAA conferences have a much bigger stick, since they control the game assignments (I think... college guys here can correct/elaborate if they wish). You can't really compare schools (college or HS) to independent leagues sanctioned through ASA.

And, nobody would wear USSSA shirts to a non-USSSA event because, well, they are RED!

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by shagpal

OK, now I understand, you are putting that emphasis on the umpires. I won't disagree with you, umpires doesn't get a free pass. I am putting far more emphasis on the ASA than most staunch ASA guys can stomach, but that's just me and makes for great diversity of viewpoints.

My point is, the ASA owns its problems like it or not, and taking an oblivious approach and passing the buck doesn't help matters. So many give the ASA a free pass for what is so obviously self made problems.

I sometimes wonder that those that staunchly defend the ASA aren't really the problem.

Seems to me you've created this role for ASA that you expect them to fulfill and then blame them for not fulfilling it. There is no such entity that has the amount of control you seem to expect them to have. It is not ASA's problem when some random umpire wears it's gear to non-ASA events - and expecting them to be able to police that is honestly quite foolish.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

...some random umpire wears it's gear...

[shagpal]

Compliance is gained by enforcement. Controlling quality sometimes requires removing irregularities. Doing something makes sense, because doing nothing isn't helping matters. Leadership needs to come from the top down when leadership fails from the bottom up.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Seems to me you've created this role for ASA that you expect them to fulfill and then blame them for not fulfilling it. There is no such entity that has the amount of control you seem to expect them to have. It is not ASA's problem when some random umpire wears it's gear to non-ASA events - and expecting them to be able to police that is honestly quite foolish.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by shagpal

I have yet to see an NCAA umpire wear NCAA or conference uniform, HS umpire wear NFHS or assoc uniform, USSSA umpire wear utrip uniform, or any other sanction umpire wear uniform out of sanction. BUT, I frequently see ASA umpires wearing ASA at non-ASA specific sanction events. I say its an ASA and ASA umpire problem, but you insist otherwise.

I've seen more than I want to of umpires wearing their high school uniforms doing other games. I've seen the same in ASA games, PONY games, and others. I've even seen NCAA conference logos in non-NCAA games. I get tired of pee-ing into the wind. When I see that and verify with the tournament directors/authorities that they are not going to fix it - I don't work at those tournaments again - and I let them know why.