ASA Should Be Ashamed

[outathm]

After listening to my wife talk about 'branding' for many years now, I agree. ISF needs to make sure that any game, but especially a televised game has the proper and newest ISF logo prominently displayed anywhere they can get it placed. The easiest is to make sure that the Umpires, who are going to be on TV almost as much as, or more than some players are uniformed in ISF gear.

A game that will be watched by America on basic cable should not be worked by umpires in ASA uniforms.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by outathm

A game that will be watched by America on basic cable should not be worked by umpires in ASA uniforms.

Is that a slight on ASA umpires? Or is ASA not allowed to be on basic cable due to some contractual issue? I'm confused by your general comment here.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Is that a slight on ASA umpires? Or is ASA not allowed to be on basic cable due to some contractual issue? I'm confused by your general comment here.

Cannot answer for anyone else, but I would assume he meant that a tournament specific to sell international softball in the United States needs to be seen as an international game played under international rules and officiated by international umpires. It also offers the appearance, even though there is none in the case, of non-partisan officials indifferent to the countries represented.

[MD Longhorn]

even at my lowly level, no official I know would show up at a non-ASA event wearing ASA apparel.

[shagpal]

I see that all the time.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

even at my lowly level, no official I know would show up at a non-ASA event wearing ASA apparel.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Cannot answer for anyone else, but I would assume he meant that a tournament specific to sell international softball in the United States needs to be seen as an international game played under international rules and officiated by international umpires. It also offers the appearance, even though there is none in the case, of non-partisan officials indifferent to the countries represented.

I agree with you on that standpoint. outathm's statement seemed more generic when I read it, and not specific to this tournament.

[outathm]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Cannot answer for anyone else, but I would assume he meant that a tournament specific to sell international softball in the United States needs to be seen as an international game played under international rules and officiated by international umpires. It also offers the appearance, even though there is none in the case, of non-partisan officials indifferent to the countries represented.

I did mean to say that ISF dropped the ball. I have no issue with ASA uniforms being worn, but it should be an ASA tournament to do so. I seem to remember last year tuning in to the "Premiere Girls Championship' games being televised on one of the 'other' sports only channels and seeing the umpires all wearing ASA gear, to include the ball bags on the plate umpire.

Now admittedly, I notice umpires more than the casual viewer, but the 'mom or dad' who was tuning in late would think this was an ASA tournament. The same is true of this tournament, with ASA being worn by the umpires. The casual observer would not have known this was being played under international rules, they would only see another 'brand' prominently displayed.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by outathm

I did mean to say that ISF dropped the ball. I have no issue with ASA uniforms being worn, but it should be an ASA tournament to do so. I seem to remember last year tuning in to the "Premiere Girls Championship' games being televised on one of the 'other' sports only channels and seeing the umpires all wearing ASA gear, to include the ball bags on the plate umpire.

Now admittedly, I notice umpires more than the casual viewer, but the 'mom or dad' who was tuning in late would think this was an ASA tournament. The same is true of this tournament, with ASA being worn by the umpires. The casual observer would not have known this was being played under international rules, they would only see another 'brand' prominently displayed.

Not sure what tournament you saw, but I can ABSOLUTELY guarantee you did not see ASA anything at the Premier. SoCal ASA even had people there watching and taking pictures of who was there; there would have been an instant lawsuit for trademark infringement if PGF used anything ASA.

I am sure you saw it somewhere, but it wasn't there.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

...there would have been an instant lawsuit for trademark infringement if PGF used anything ASA...

During the political dust-up that has gone on here the last several years between the state ASA commissioner and those opposed to him, there was "policing" of (or an attempt to police) umpires wearing ASA-logoed gear at the "opponents" tournaments by the state ASA commissioner's office. There were no threats of trademark lawsuits (AFAIK), but there were letters sent to umpires and such.

I never understood the rationale behind this, however.

Getting your brand out there is fundamental to promotion. Why would the ASA itself be opposed to having the competition have to visibly use ASA umpires? It seems to me it would indicate the opponent organization is lacking to the point they have to look to the ASA to provide officials. Why is this bad for ASA?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

During the political dust-up that has gone on here the last several years between the state ASA commissioner and those opposed to him, there was "policing" of (or an attempt to police) umpires wearing ASA-logoed gear at the "opponents" tournaments by the state ASA commissioner's office. There were no threats of trademark lawsuits (AFAIK), but there were letters sent to umpires and such.

I never understood the rationale behind this, however.

Getting your brand out there is fundamental to promotion. Why would the ASA itself be opposed to having the competition have to visibly use ASA umpires? It seems to me it would indicate the opponent organization is lacking to the point they have to look to the ASA to provide officials. Why is this bad for ASA?

Why would a Ford commercial run footage showing a Chevy win a race at Daytona? Do you think Anheuser-Busch wouldn't take action if Sam Adams ran a spot showing a Clydesdale-drawn wagon loaded with Sam Adam's product entering Fenway Park?

Though lawsuits should be the last resort, if you are working ABC you should wear ABC's uniform. If XYZ did not want their brand associated with a competitor, they have every right to demand their trademarked logo is not included in any events other than those in which they choose to do so.

I didn't have a problem telling umpires working a PONY tournament to find another hat, shirt or ball bag that did not have ASA on it. I would not do it publicly or at the event I was observing, but afterwards at a local meeting or if I saw them.

It is a reasonable demand of any organization that values their brand.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Getting your brand out there is fundamental to promotion. Why would the ASA itself be opposed to having the competition have to visibly use ASA umpires? It seems to me it would indicate the opponent organization is lacking to the point they have to look to the ASA to provide officials. Why is this bad for ASA?

You ever umpire with someone you were almost embarrassed they were wearing the same uniform?

Ever have a discussion with a coach who insisted the ASA rule was this or that because the umpire had an ASA on his hat or shirt when in fact it was another organization, but YOU are the one who is wrong?

Could go on all night, but I don't think you would bother reading

[outathm]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Not sure what tournament you saw, but I can ABSOLUTELY guarantee you did not see ASA anything at the Premier. SoCal ASA even had people there watching and taking pictures of who was there; there would have been an instant lawsuit for trademark infringement if PGF used anything ASA.

I am sure you saw it somewhere, but it wasn't there.

I do not have a copy of the tape, but if you can find a cop of the 2012 or 2013 games that were aired on CBS sports, the umpires were wearing ASA gear. I do not care wither way, except that I am also one that will not allow an umpire to wear another organizations gear at a competing tournament.

In reality, the STRONG majority of umpires in the US were either trained by ASA, or trained by someone who was trained by ASA. That is just the way it is. However, if it is not an ASA sanctioned event, ASA gear needs to stay in the car or at home.

[shagpal]

Premier uses modified HS ruleset.

You are likely mistaking it for TCS (triple crown) that does use ASA ruleset.

Originally Posted by outathm

I did mean to say that ISF dropped the ball. I have no issue with ASA uniforms being worn, but it should be an ASA tournament to do so. I seem to remember last year tuning in to the "Premiere Girls Championship' games being televised on one of the 'other' sports only channels and seeing the umpires all wearing ASA gear, to include the ball bags on the plate umpire.

Now admittedly, I notice umpires more than the casual viewer, but the 'mom or dad' who was tuning in late would think this was an ASA tournament. The same is true of this tournament, with ASA being worn by the umpires. The casual observer would not have known this was being played under international rules, they would only see another 'brand' prominently displayed.

[EsqUmp]

When in Rome, dress as a Roman.

In NYS, we have one standard uniform for high school. Only two items have logos on them, the sweater and jacket. The only reason they even have logos is to prevent umpires from buying non-umpire look-a-likes from stores. Nothing else has a logo, that way umpires can use the same uniform for other sanctioned events that don't require a specific uniform.

What I can't understand is why every time I go to a Babe Ruth, Little League or any other game assigned through a local ASA association, all of the umpires are wearing ASA uniforms. That's leaving aside the fact that ASA is printed on everything from the guys socks to his ball bags. Umpires begin to look like bulletin boards rather than officials.

My hat is never going to contradict the rules I'm using.

Either wear the uniform of the rule set or wear a plain uniform.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

What I can't understand is why every time I go to a Babe Ruth, Little League or any other game assigned through a local ASA association, all of the umpires are wearing ASA uniforms.

Years ago, my local insisted on ASA caps, etc. for HS because we are an ASA association. I was often criticized for wearing plain uniforms as it clearly said in the HS rule book. We finally corrected that, but it might relate to the issue above; also possibly because of no other uniforms.