Weird play tonight.

[chapmaja]

Rec League 6th grade game.

I'm working with a new umpire who is doing her first 2 umpire game behind the plate. R1 at 2nd, R2 at first, B3 at the plate.

Low line drive to SS who makes a shoestring catch. From my angle on the play (as the BU) I thought it hit the ground. She immediately tags the R2 after the catch, then runs over and tags R1 who is now standing on 2b. I did not see or hear the out call on the catch, so I call R2 out (tag), and R1 safe at second. B3 is standing on 1b, so I think we have 1 out. The PU comes up and tells me she called an out on the catch (the dirt I saw coming up was from the glove, not the ball hitting the dirt). At this point, now instead of 1 out, we have 3 outs. One on the catch. 1 on R2 tagged while running from 2b to 3b, and one for R2 being off 2b without having tagged up.

We actually had a parent video taping the game. After the game he showed us the video of the play, and sure enough, it was a catch and a resulting triple play. It was a great play by the SS and a great call by my PU.

To be honest, the only issue I had with this rookie plate umpire was her voice. Her calls were too quiet to be heard on the bases. Other than her voice level, everything else she did was very solid. I was very impressed to have a young umpire who was honestly better than several JV umpires I worked with in the HS season. Too bad she is still in HS, because the JV HS level needs some new quality umpires to replace the ones who starting umping when dinosaurs still roamed the Earth.

[outathm]

When I work with young umpires who need to be more vocal, I always tell them, "When you get too loud I will let you know." I have them give a verbal call on everything, and work backwards from there.

We have a number of younger umpires in our area and the 'small voice' syndrome is the biggest hurdle they all have to overcome.

[Matt-MI]

Chapmaja

From reading your posts I noticed you have mentioned being in Michigan. If you live in MI and work NFHS get that young lady some info on the Legacy program through the MHSAA.

I mentored a young man this past year in football and baseball. It was a lot of fun working with him. He graduated last month and is now spending a week working games in Cooperstown

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Rec League 6th grade game.

I'm working with a new umpire who is doing her first 2 umpire game behind the plate. R1 at 2nd, R2 at first, B3 at the plate.

Low line drive to SS who makes a shoestring catch. From my angle on the play (as the BU) I thought it hit the ground. She immediately tags the R2 after the catch, then runs over and tags R1 who is now standing on 2b. I did not see or hear the out call on the catch, so I call R2 out (tag), and R1 safe at second. B3 is standing on 1b, so I think we have 1 out. The PU comes up and tells me she called an out on the catch (the dirt I saw coming up was from the glove, not the ball hitting the dirt). At this point, now instead of 1 out, we have 3 outs. One on the catch. 1 on R2 tagged while running from 2b to 3b, and one for R2 being off 2b without having tagged up.

I'm a little confused by your description of what happened. Sounds like you're mixing up the designation of R1 and R2 midway through the discussion.

You said that after F6 made the catch, she tagged R2 out. R2 started at first base. How was F6 positioned such that she could tag out R2 right after the catch? And was R2 on or off the bag when that happened?

You also said after F6 tagged R2 out, she ran over and tagged R1 who was standing on second base. Is this the same R1 you said started at second base? If so, why would she be out on the tag? She's where she's supposed to be on the play.

Then you really confuse me when you describe that two runners were tagged, and both were R2.

I think what you meant to say was that F6 made the catch, tagged R1 (the runner who started at second base) when she was off the base, and then tagged R2 (the runner who started at first) after she advanced and was standing at second.

That all said, as BU, you should have started behind and between F6 and second base. It would be very difficult to see a catch/no catch on a line drive from your position on a ball batted to F6, since her glove would be between you and the ball. As soon as the ball enters the glove, you should've been able to glance at your PU partner to see what she had. At the very least, you could have looked her way after F6 tagged R1. It's the PU's call, and you need to be aware of the call while you're determining the outcome of the tags.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Sounds like you're mixing up the designation of R1 and R2 midway through the discussion.
.

As posters often do, but we all probably figured it out and got the point that the PU mad a good call on a close play (plus other compliments) and they saw a rare triple play.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

As posters often do, but we all probably figured it out and got the point that the PU mad a good call on a close play (plus other compliments) and they saw a rare triple play.

Perhaps.

One question, though. On the tag of R2 at second base, since this was an appeal situation of her not tagging up properly, what is the requirement, if any, for the defense to make the umpire aware of what they're doing? By Definition, an Appeal play requires the defense to make a request to the umpire, unless it's quite obvious what's going on.

In this case, it may not be so obvious that F6 was tagging R2 for the purpose of making the appeal. We see all the time, especially at the lower levels, where defensive players will make unnecessary tags of a runner while she is on a base because that's what the coach instructs them to do. If there wasn't anybody yelling, "TAG HER! She didn't tag up at first base!" would you go ahead and grant the appeal?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Perhaps.

One question, though. On the tag of R2 at second base, since this was an appeal situation of her not tagging up properly, what is the requirement, if any, for the defense to make the umpire aware of what they're doing? By Definition, an Appeal play requires the defense to make a request to the umpire, unless it's quite obvious what's going on.

In this case, it may not be so obvious that F6 was tagging R2 for the purpose of making the appeal. We see all the time, especially at the lower levels, where defensive players will make unnecessary tags of a runner while she is on a base because that's what the coach instructs them to do. If there wasn't anybody yelling, "TAG HER! She didn't tag up at first base!" would you go ahead and grant the appeal?

I think a player like the OP that actually caught the ball, and then moves to tag someone that's on a base is rather obviously appealing them leaving early.

Change this up and have F6 throw to F4 at 2nd and it's not quite as obvious.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I'm a little confused by your description of what happened. Sounds like you're mixing up the designation of R1 and R2 midway through the discussion.

You said that after F6 made the catch, she tagged R2 out. R2 started at first base. How was F6 positioned such that she could tag out R2 right after the catch? And was R2 on or off the bag when that happened?

You also said after F6 tagged R2 out, she ran over and tagged R1 who was standing on second base. Is this the same R1 you said started at second base? If so, why would she be out on the tag? She's where she's supposed to be on the play.

Then you really confuse me when you describe that two runners were tagged, and both were R2.

I think what you meant to say was that F6 made the catch, tagged R1 (the runner who started at second base) when she was off the base, and then tagged R2 (the runner who started at first) after she advanced and was standing at second.

That all said, as BU, you should have started behind and between F6 and second base. It would be very difficult to see a catch/no catch on a line drive from your position on a ball batted to F6, since her glove would be between you and the ball. As soon as the ball enters the glove, you should've been able to glance at your PU partner to see what she had. At the very least, you could have looked her way after F6 tagged R1. It's the PU's call, and you need to be aware of the call while you're determining the outcome of the tags.

I'm sure I did mix them up.