HBP Out of the Batters Box (PONY)

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Andy

I get all of that. My point is that adding the verbiage "entirely within the batter's box" has created an unintended consequence and over thinking of the rule.

There is a big difference between IF in the batters box and ONLY IF in the batters box.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

There is a big difference between IF in the batters box and ONLY IF in the batters box.

There may be a big difference, if that was relevant at all...

The rule, in Pony, states: touches any part of the batter’s person or clothing while she is in the batter’s box

It is not exactly ambiguous.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

There may be a big difference, if that was relevant at all...

The rule, in Pony, states: touches any part of the batter’s person or clothing while she is in the batter’s box

It is not exactly ambiguous.

Of course, I was referring to Andy's "unintended consequence".

[Andy]

I'll try again....

The intent of the rule change is take away the requirement that the batter has to attempt to avoid the errant pitch in order to be awarded first base if hit by a pitch. Before this was implemented and as it is currently written in ASA, it does not matter where the pitch is if it is not in the strike zone or is not swung at by the batter. If the pitch hits the batter and the batter attempted to avoid the pitch, s/he is awarded first base.

Adding the verbiage "entirely within the batter's box" or similar to the text of the rule ie., "the batter does not have to attempt to avoid any pitch that is entirely within the batter's box" leads some to believe that the batter still must make an attempt to avoid a pitch that hits a batter who is out of the batter's box. The common example is the lefty slapper that has run out of the front of the box. (NCAA excepted as they specifically address this situation)

My opinion is that the rationale behind adding this language was the simplistic view that the batter should be in the batter's box and the pitch should not. It was meant as an example, not a definition of the only time the rule applies.

I believe the rule change should be written something like this:

If a batter is hit by a pitched ball that is not swung at nor in the strike zone, the ball is dead and the batter is awarded first base.

If I'm the umpire in the OP, I'm calling a dead ball and awarding the batter first base. Just as I would have done prior to the rule change.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Andy

I'll try again....

The intent of the rule change is take away the requirement that the batter has to attempt to avoid the errant pitch in order to be awarded first base if hit by a pitch. Before this was implemented and as it is currently written in ASA, it does not matter where the pitch is if it is not in the strike zone or is not swung at by the batter. If the pitch hits the batter and the batter attempted to avoid the pitch, s/he is awarded first base.

Adding the verbiage "entirely within the batter's box" or similar to the text of the rule ie., "the batter does not have to attempt to avoid any pitch that is entirely within the batter's box" leads some to believe that the batter still must make an attempt to avoid a pitch that hits a batter who is out of the batter's box. The common example is the lefty slapper that has run out of the front of the box. (NCAA excepted as they specifically address this situation)

My opinion is that the rationale behind adding this language was the simplistic view that the batter should be in the batter's box and the pitch should not. It was meant as an example, not a definition of the only time the rule applies.

I believe the rule change should be written something like this:

If a batter is hit by a pitched ball that is not swung at nor in the strike zone, the ball is dead and the batter is awarded first base.

If I'm the umpire in the OP, I'm calling a dead ball and awarding the batter first base. Just as I would have done prior to the rule change.

Isn't one variation of "not in the box", the normal and legal arms position in space above the ground between the batter box and the plate?

[EsqUmp]

Yes, you are calling "dead ball" and calling the pitch a ball. That is the official interpretation in PONY.

Interesting that this question came up within a day of the official interpretation being published regarding this specific issue.

[jmkupka]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Yes, you are calling "dead ball" and calling the pitch a ball. That is the official interpretation in PONY.

Interesting that this question came up within a day of the official interpretation being published regarding this specific issue.

I receive valuable rule interps via email from my PONY UIC, as others here obviously do as well. I've thanked him for bringing up this critical rule, and told him that I'm posting it here.

I happen to enjoy (and learn much from) the lively debates I read here, and assumed (correctly) that this one would bring up related issues that I can use to improve my performance.

IOW, I'm not questioning his interp.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Isn't one variation of "not in the box", the normal and legal arms position in space above the ground between the batter box and the plate?

Yes...and if I am working a sanction which no longer requires the batter to attempt to avoid being hit by the pitch, and the batter is hit in the area you describe without the pitch being a strike, I am awarding first base. I am also assuming that the batter did not move to be hit by the pitch.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Andy

I'll try again....

The intent of the rule change

Just as I would have done prior to the rule change.

What rule change.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

What rule change.

The rule change made in some sanctions (NCAA, NFHS, PONY) that no longer requires the batter to attempt to avoid being hit by an errant pitch in order to be awarded first base.

I am well aware that this change has not been made in ASA at this time.

[RKBUmp]

Maybe Im missing something in reading through the posts, but the verbage "entirely within the batters box" has nothing to do with the batter. It is in reference to the pitched ball which must be entirely within the batters box for the batter to not have to attempt to avoid.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Andy

The rule change made in some sanctions (NCAA, NFHS, PONY) that no longer requires the batter to attempt to avoid being hit by an errant pitch in order to be awarded first base.

I am well aware that this change has not been made in ASA at this time.

OK ... so there should be no confusion over what was intended in either code. ASA has no change, thus you should rule as you said you would (and did). Pony does... so your assertion that you would rule HBP in the OP is just wrong.