Mechanics question for you NCAA folks

[DRJ1960]

College Mechanics please. (Play occurred in HS game. Partner stated he was using NCAA mechanics on play).

3 man HS Regional game. R1 on first, one out. Deep line drive between F7 and
F8. U3 goes out for catch / no catch. What are base responsibilities for PU and U1?
(In case it's not obvious to all: PU has the plate, U1 is at first and U3 started play on the first base side of second base).

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by DRJ1960

College Mechanics please. (Plat occurred in HS game. Partner stated he was using NCAA mechanics on play).

3 man HS Regional game. R1 on first, one out. Deep line drive between F7 and
F8. U3 goes out for catch / no catch. What are base responsibilities for U1 and U2?
(In case it's not obvious to all: U1 has the plate, U2 is at first and U3 started play on the first base side of second base).

First... fix your nomenclature: PU has the plate; U1 is at first, and U3 is the other guy.

Given that your initial setup is completely messed up, you're already slightly screwed. But if we ignore that ... the general answer is that if an umpire goes out, you revert to 2-man mechanics, which you should be pretty familiar with. In 2-man, what would BU (U1) do with a liner to the outfield and runner on first?

[DRJ1960]

What the D1 College ump stated was that the college mechanic differs from what Fed mechanics manual calls for.

[MD Longhorn]

It does differ, but U3 should not be on the first base side. Perhaps he is thinking baseball, but even then he should be "on an imaginary line extending from third base through second base, 10 feet from second base toward right-center field, set position, facing the plate" .. and NOT on the first base side.

[DRJ1960]

My apologies... in trying to be brief I misled you... U 3 was exactly as you describe ... which, if a line were drawn from the plate through 2nd base to centerfield is on the "first base side"...

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by DRJ1960

My apologies... in trying to be brief I misled you... U 3 was exactly as you describe ... which, if a line were drawn from the plate through 2nd base to centerfield is on the "first base side"...

So ... baseball positioning for a softball game.

In any case, the answer to your initial question is that if he goes out, BU's job is what it would be in a 2-man system.

[DRJ1960]

Why is U3 standing as you desribed with heels touching Right Centerfield outfield grass a baseball position? Every NCAA and HS 3 man game I've seen has U3 in this position with a runner on first.

[Andy]

I'm trying to envision what U1 could have done that would be different than what you are used to in FED 3 umpire mechanics. AFAIK, the coverage for the play you describe is no different, U1 has all plays at 1st and 2nd and the B/R to third, PU would have the lead runner at third and home.

Then it occurred to me...did U1 stay outside the diamond instead of coming inside and using a buttonhook? That would be something that is allowed in the college mechanics, but not in the FED manual.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by DRJ1960

Why is U3 standing as you desribed with heels touching Right Centerfield outfield grass a baseball position? Every NCAA and HS 3 man game I've seen has U3 in this position with a runner on first.

Looking at it right now. NFHS (and Cactus for that matter) both show U3 at C with a runner on first.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by DRJ1960

Why is U3 standing as you desribed with heels touching Right Centerfield outfield grass a baseball position? Every NCAA and HS 3 man game I've seen has U3 in this position with a runner on first.

And now I'm confused ... if you've seen this every time, what was your original question?

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by DRJ1960

College Mechanics please. (Play occurred in HS game. Partner stated he was using NCAA mechanics on play).

3 man HS Regional game. R1 on first, one out. Deep line drive between F7 and
F8. U3 goes out for catch / no catch. What are base responsibilities for PU and U1?
(In case it's not obvious to all: PU has the plate, U1 is at first and U3 started play on the first base side of second base).

The set up is correct. 1BU is on the 1st base line. 3BU is on the 1st base side of the infield on a direct line from 2nd to 3rd base.

3BU is responsible for catch / no catch (provided he goes out in NCAA) between the left fielder and right fielder (the "V" as many call it). Once 3BU goes out, the umpire revert to a 2 umpire system. In this case, 1BU is responsible for R1's tag-up and for R1 into 2nd base. 1BU is also responsible for the BR to 3rd base.

Plate umpire is responsible for any play on R1 going into 3rd base.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

It does differ, but U3 should not be on the first base side. Perhaps he is thinking baseball, but even then he should be "on an imaginary line extending from third base through second base, 10 feet from second base toward right-center field, set position, facing the plate" .. and NOT on the first base side.

I think that the choice of terms is causing problems. If you draw a line directly through 2nd base, you then have the 3rd base side of 2nd and the 1st base side of 2nd. With R1 on 1st base, the 3BU is on the 1st base side of 2nd base. The exact position being 10 feet from 2nd base on a line looking through 2nd base to 3rd base.

[MD Longhorn]

You're probably right... I should not try to process invoices and answer these at the same time!

[DRJ1960]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Looking at it right now. NFHS (and Cactus for that matter) both show U3 at C with a runner on first.

2012 2013 NFHS Softball Umpires Manuel p49 fig25 shows "B3" as I described.

[DRJ1960]

I was U3...
D1 partner was U1
When I went out for catch / no catch, he had tag-up and then rotated to the plate. This forced PU to third and left 2nd uncovered. He stated this was the "College mechanic".

During very cordial post game conversation I asked why he rotated and he said again that he was following NCAA manual. That's why I asked for the college guys to help. I knew he was wrong by Fed (even though he didn't think so