Approved Mechanic? (ASA)

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Problem is, "Swing?" isn't necessarily appropriate for all situations. If the batter tries to bunt and misses, but the plate umpire didn't see it, a "No" response to "Swing?" would technically be correct.

I will still stay "swing" and expect my partner to know a bunt is a type of "swing". Although, maybe "offer" is more generic, including bunt, slap, going for home run, etc.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I will still stay "swing" and expect my partner to know a bunt is a type of "swing". Although, maybe "offer" is more generic, including bunt, slap, going for home run, etc.

Just my opinion, but asking "Offer?" sounds like crap. As do the few partners that have verbalized "On the Offer!!"

I suggest you lose that word; there is no offer, I don't believe that word even exists in a rule book or manual. I think you can consider an offer every time the batter even reacts, and the dugout says "she wanted it".

There has been an "ATTEMPT" to contact the ball with the bat. And the best way to deal with those that have issues understanding any part of the game is to strictly use rulebook terminology; any local colloquialism that supposedly "means the same thing" isn't what the game uses. One of my better local umpires is constantly getting in a bind because he always has a different way to explain everything OTHER than using the rulebook verbiage. He is constantly trying to explain why it is the "same thing, just different", instead of using the right words to begin with.

I guess little stuff makes me cringe. When I hear "offer" on a ball field, I expect that umpire to also announce "full count" and hold up two fists. He may also have a two stitch beanie in his equipment bag somewhere.

And while on the topic of words that make me cringe, I thought the offense "scored" runs by touching home plate. When did plate become a verb (as in "plated" a run)??

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Just my opinion, but asking "Offer?" sounds like crap. As do the few partners that have verbalized "On the Offer!!"

I suggest you lose that word; there is no offer, I don't believe that word even exists in a rule book or manual. I think you can consider an offer every time the batter even reacts, and the dugout says "she wanted it".

There has been an "ATTEMPT" to contact the ball with the bat. And the best way to deal with those that have issues understanding any part of the game is to strictly use rulebook terminology; any local colloquialism that supposedly "means the same thing" isn't what the game uses. One of my better local umpires is constantly getting in a bind because he always has a different way to explain everything OTHER than using the rulebook verbiage. He is constantly trying to explain why it is the "same thing, just different", instead of using the right words to begin with.

I guess little stuff makes me cringe. When I hear "offer" on a ball field, I expect that umpire to also announce "full count" and hold up two fists. He may also have a two stitch beanie in his equipment bag somewhere.

And while on the topic of words that make me cringe, I thought the offense "scored" runs by touching home plate. When did plate become a verb (as in "plated" a run)??

I fully agree, "offer" was more a language comment than a rules comment, I only use "swing".
"Attempt" is more correct and more generic, as soon as the rain stops, I'll "attempt" to remember it.

Plated, like a lot of other usage, seems to be just announcers trying to sound more interesting. And I generally dislike nouns being used as verbs, also.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Problem is, "Swing?" isn't necessarily appropriate for all situations. If the batter tries to bunt and misses, but the plate umpire didn't see it, a "No" response to "Swing?" would technically be correct.

If you have to check on a bunt, you may want to move over to slow pitch

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

And I generally dislike nouns being used as verbs, also.

I agree. I can't stand people that noun their verbs.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

If you have to check on a bunt, you may want to move over to slow pitch

The recent requirement to "draw back" has caused more defensive requests;
but this also was about linguistics, as well as rules & judgment.

[HugoTafurst]

:d

Originally Posted by md longhorn

i agree. I can't stand people that noun their verbs.

[HugoTafurst]

OK, here's my 2 cents.

On both mechanics.

1) Did she go? - I always step out, point at my partner, loudly say his / her name (followed by) "Did she go". - I have never had any assignor or evaluator comment that I should do something different.

2) "timing play" ("unauthorized" ASA mechanic)

Up until January of this year, I have always used this mechanic as did most everyone I remember. HOWEVER, in January, I was working an ASA sanctioned game and gave it to my partner in "C" and he shook his head no.
I gave him a quizzical look and repeated the signal and he again shook his head no. (I KNEW there were 2 outs - and I knew there were runners on 1st and 2nd) He again shook his head no and pointed to the ASA on his hat.
We went on with the game and afterwords I asked him and that is the first I had heard about the signal "not existing" in ASA.....
I then inquired of a few others including a High School evaluator who commented that not using the "timing play" signal is one of the things he looks for when evaluating.
So this year, I have stopped using the "timing play" signal for HS or ASA games.

Any other tournament games, I start of not using it, but if I get a partner who uses it, I do also.
My philosophy there is, I really don't give a sh1t, let's play ball.

NCAA Games get the "2 out signal" from me

That is also my philosophy with those that use the IF signal and stick out one finger (to indicate one out - although I am always tempted to ask what the signal is with 2 outs!! - yuk, yuk, yuk)


I just do what I'm told.

[EsqUmp]

I still can't figure out why NCAA wants us to use the timing play signal with two outs and no runners on base. It makes no sense. I've heard instructors say, "it is just a way to let your partner(s) know that there are two outs." Well, then let's signal no outs or one out as well, just to be consistent. Of course, that is all over-officious.

What else have people heard about signaling when there's no one on?

[BretMan]

Double fist bump! The ball hit the plate!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

NCAA Games get the "2 out signal" from me

That is also my philosophy with those that use the IF signal and stick out one finger (to indicate one out - although I am always tempted to ask what the signal is with 2 outs!! - yuk, yuk, yuk)


I just do what I'm told.

But a timing play does not require the pitch be made with two outs. There is the possibility of a timing play any time you have as many players on base as you need outs to end the half-inning.

And, IMO, when the play starts with two outs is the time a signal is the least needed.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

But a timing play does not require the pitch be made with two outs. There is the possibility of a timing play any time you have as many players on base as you need outs to end the half-inning.

And, IMO, when the play starts with two outs is the time a signal is the least needed.

True, I've often (well sometime, not often) thought about that.

But as I said, I don't really care, I just want to figure out what the guy who is or is not going to ask me to do the next game wants.
I've got more things to do.
Heck in my HS association, they do want to signal no outs, 1 out or 2 outs.
And you know what, with no scoreboard (or worse yet inaccurate scoreboard operators) , sometimes that's not a bad idea.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

If you have to check on a bunt, you may want to move over to slow pitch

I've had the few occasions where the batter starts to square and then the catcher stands up to receive a high pitch. It happens.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I've had the few occasions where the batter starts to square and then the catcher stands up to receive a high pitch. It happens.

Never had that happen, but can certainly understand the need to check if that occurred.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Just my opinion, but asking "Offer?" sounds like crap. As do the few partners that have verbalized "On the Offer!!"

I suggest you lose that word; there is no offer, I don't believe that word even exists in a rule book or manual.

Well, I certainly respect your opinion. I find it rather amusing that you would let something like that bother you so much.

And, Yes, I do use the word "Offer". Have been for as long as I can remember, and until I read your post, I never heard of anyone saying anything negative about it. True, it's not in a rule book or manual. But what is in a rule book is "Did they go?" and I feel that makes less sense. I simply point and say, "She offered." No evaluator or assignor has ever told me to lose the word.

For me, I don't get too hung up on anything that adds a little--just a little--individuality to the craft. If my partner says, "Swing" or "Yes" or "She went" or whatever, I honestly could care less. I'm more concerned that my partner saw the attempt and acknowledged it accordingly with the appropriate physical mechanic. Maybe it's the baseball umpire in me, but I don't see why we all have to look and sound like automatons out there.

Now, I'm not suggesting we should all have our own unique Strike mechanic like you see in MLB. But when it comes to subtle hand signals to partners, variances in verbal calls, etc., how does that tarnish the quality of umpires out there? I'd rather have a partner who looks sharp, hustles, gets into the right position, and shows sound judgment. After he/she does all that, and then tops it off with "She's out" or "Out" or "HAAAAAAA!", no biggie.

But that's just my opinion, FWIW.

Oh, and one more thing: I don't say "Full Count" and bump two fists together. And I threw away my two-seamer years ago.