NCAA non approved bat

[shipwreck]

I am a little confused on a non approved bat discovered and the penalty. If the bat is discovered the first time does the rule state that the head coach shall be ejected along with the other penalties? Rule 3.3.4 effect says if the inappropriate bat is rediscovered the head coach is ejected from the game. Earlier it says if a non approved bat is discovered, the PU shall secure the bat for the duration of the game. If the PU has the bat how can it be rediscovered? Once again, what does it take as far as bats go to have to eject the head coach? Dave

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

I am a little confused on a non approved bat discovered and the penalty. If the bat is discovered the first time does the rule state that the head coach shall be ejected along with the other penalties? Rule 3.3.4 effect says if the inappropriate bat is rediscovered the head coach is ejected from the game. Earlier it says if a non approved bat is discovered, the PU shall secure the bat for the duration of the game. If the PU has the bat how can it be rediscovered? Once again, what does it take as far as bats go to have to eject the head coach? Dave

The reason the term "rediscovered" is used is because no non-approved bat is permitted to at the game once the umpires enter the field. The bat must have been, by rule, removed upon its discovery during the bat check.

[shipwreck]

So if you do a bat check, and all are fine and then a player pulls a non approved bat out of their bag and uses it, that is considered rediscovering it? And then the head coach is ejected? Is that correct? Dave

[EsqUmp]

RULE 3.3.4 RULE & EFFECT

Bats deemed inappropriate (altered, illegal or nonapproved) (pregame or
DURING PLAY) shall be removed from the team’s possession and secured by the plate umpire from either team for the duration of the game.

If the inappropriate bat is rediscovered while the batter is in the
batter’s box or after her turn at bat and before a pitch to the
next batter, the batter (or now batter-runner if the turn at bat is
completed) shall be declared out and ejected, and any advance by
base runners shall be nullified.

If a pitch has been thrown to the next batter, the batter who used
the equipment and is now the base runner, shall be declared out
if on base and, in any case, shall be ejected. Advance by base
runners shall stand.

In all cases, the head coach is ejected from that game.

[Az.Ump]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

So if you do a bat check, and all are fine and then a player pulls a non approved bat out of their bag and uses it, that is considered rediscovering it? And then the head coach is ejected? Is that correct? Dave

No.
3.3.4 Only applies to a bat already removed pre game or during play.
First time during play,
EFFECT—(3.3.1.1 to 3.3.1.8)—See Appendix C. If a batter enters the
batter’s box with an illegal bat, the bat shall be removed from
the game (not returned to the dugout), the batter shall be
declared out, and base runners shall not advance. If a batter
enters the batter’s box with an altered or nonapproved bat,
or has completed her turn at bat using that bat and before
the first pitch to the next batter, the penalty for an illegal bat
shall be imposed in addition to the batter being ejected from
the game. If a nonapproved bat is detected at any time during
the contest, the bat shall be surrendered to the plate umpire.
Exception: In all cases, advance is legal on a noncontacted pitch
or ball four.
Any bat discovered through NCAA bat compliance testing to
exceed the ASA bat performance standard shall be excluded
from use, and the player/team may be subject to penalties
imposed by the NCAA (not umpire).
In all cases regarding possession or use of an inappropriate bat,
the plate umpire shall file an incident report (See Appendix E),
with the NCAA softball secretary-rules editor.

4C. Batter is out
and ejected. Base
runner(s) shall return
to the base occupied
at the time of the
pitch. Bat immediately surrendered,
returned to the team
postgame, and an
incident report is
filed with the NCAA
softball SRE


Paul

[Crabby_Bob]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

So if you do a bat check, and all are fine and then a player pulls a non approved bat out of their bag and uses it, that is considered rediscovering it? And then the head coach is ejected? Is that correct? Dave

Or, if they crawl above the false ceiling to get into the umpire's room and retrieve the bat... Nah, that would NEVER happen

[cteben]

any inappropriate bat discovered during pregame bat check or during game will be taken out of play and generate an incident report.

if a bat is not on the ncaa bat check list provided by the coach pregame or a bat already taken out of play by umpires is reintroduced into play, you have an ejected coach by rule. of course, you'll have an incident report to do for the bat and the ejections.

Originally Posted by shipwreck

I am a little confused on a non approved bat discovered and the penalty. If the bat is discovered the first time does the rule state that the head coach shall be ejected along with the other penalties? Rule 3.3.4 effect says if the inappropriate bat is rediscovered the head coach is ejected from the game. Earlier it says if a non approved bat is discovered, the PU shall secure the bat for the duration of the game. If the PU has the bat how can it be rediscovered? Once again, what does it take as far as bats go to have to eject the head coach? Dave

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by Az.Ump

No.
3.3.4 Only applies to a bat already removed pre game or during play.

The appendix is nice because it gives an outline of what to do. However, it is not all inclusive. The rule specifically says that the coach is ejected. The reason "during play" is added is to address bats that weren't present at the pre-game check. It's presumed that all bats inspected pre-game would meet the requirements if they were allowed in the game. The team doesn't get to have the benefit of not ejecting the coach because the team concealed the inappropriate bat pre-game. That's an even more egregious act.

You'll take note that the appendix NEVER states that the coach is ejected. However, that could not be made clearer in the rules portion of the book.

IN ALL CASES, THE HEAD COACH IS EJECTED FROM THE GAME.

[shipwreck]

We are still getting conflicting opinions on this. If a non approved bat is found in the initial bat check and removed by the PU, how can it be brought back in? So what criteria has to happen for the head coach to be ejected? Is it anytime a player is discovered using a non approved bat, or does it have to be the second time the bat is discovered? I must have a thick skull. Dave

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

We are still getting conflicting opinions on this. If a non approved bat is found in the initial bat check and removed by the PU, how can it be brought back in? So what criteria has to happen for the head coach to be ejected? Is it anytime a player is discovered using a non approved bat, or does it have to be the second time the bat is discovered? I must have a thick skull. Dave

It's not your skull that's the problem. It's the way it is outline in the book. It would be much easier if they listed it as 1- 2- 3-.

Basically anytime an inappropriate bat is found, the head coach is ejected. The one exception is when the inappropriate bat is used by an on-deck batter. In that case, the on-deck batter is warned. If an on-deck batter is later discovered to have the same bat, they are ejected. There's no note of the coach being ejected in this case.

The theory behind almost always ejecting the head coach is to really put the onus on them to clean up their equipment.

[Andy]

There has still been no answer to the basic question:

If an illegal bat is "discovered" and removed from the game and secured by the umpires, how can it get back into the game to be "rediscovered"?

[outathm]

The bat gets back in the game when the 'nice guy' tells the coach, "This bat can't be used, get rid of it for the game", instead of taking the bat and handing it to the OSA or press box. I have worked in tournaments this year where this happened and then the next day the bat was in the rack ready for inspection. Confiscate like the book says and there will not be any question of the bat coming back.

If it does come back, there is a lot bigger problem than a bad bat.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by outathm

The bat gets back in the game when the 'nice guy' tells the coach, "This bat can't be used, get rid of it for the game", instead of taking the bat and handing it to the OSA or press box. I have worked in tournaments this year where this happened and then the next day the bat was in the rack ready for inspection. Confiscate like the book says and there will not be any question of the bat coming back.

If it does come back, there is a lot bigger problem than a bad bat.

Or the bat is in a bat bag and they take it out later in the game.

[shipwreck]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Or the bat is in a bat bag and they take it out later in the game.

Nope, in the case you just state, that would not be the same. We are talking about a bat being rediscovered. In your scenario, that would just be being discovered for the first time. The coach wouldn't be ejected in the case the way you stated it. Dave

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

Nope, in the case you just state, that would not be the same. We are talking about a bat being rediscovered. In your scenario, that would just be being discovered for the first time. The coach wouldn't be ejected in the case the way you stated it. Dave

I was responding to the specific post, not the original question. That's why I quoted the statement. My point was that it isn't always the umpire's fault that an inappropriate bat ends up getting used. While some umpires may not follow proper protocol, that certainly doesn't mean that teams aren't purposely concealing the bats and then using them.