Dead Ball Penalty

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

What if I'm the BR and I'm still not to 1B when the ball goes out of play. Are you going to leave me at 1B or are you going to put me on 2B?

I mentioned 8-4-3f, and said that the Effect should be two bases from the time of the kick. So if the BR is only on first base when it happens, she gets awarded third. If she's on second, then she scores.

Or perhaps the appropriate ruling is one base from when the ball enters DBT, using the 8-4-3f Exception 1. And that would be in line with the catch-n-carry rule, 8-4-3i.

But I don't agree that it should be a TOP award.

[tcannizzo]

If outfielder kicks a softball through the 15' gap between the end of the temporary fence and the chain link fence enclosing the field, wouldn't we have:
"GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLL"

[IRISHMAFIA]

ASA addressed this a couple years ago and I agree. Don't see why it would be different for HS.

If the player provides the impetus that causes the ball to enter DBT, it is two bases from the time it left the player's foot/leg/whatever, just as if the player threw the ball.

Of course, you have a load of idiots who want to argue that a hard hit ball hitting the arm or shoulder of a player trying to get in front of it cause it to leave play, but that is not what it should be. We are talking about a ball that without the player's contact pushing the ball out of play would not have.

Too much overthinking the issue. If you feel the ball was losing power and then regains speeds and often changes direction, it probably is not a deflected ball "off" the defender, but a ball that was deflected by the defender.

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

ASA addressed this a couple years ago and I agree. Don't see why it would be different for HS.

If the player provides the impetus that causes the ball to enter DBT, it is two bases from the time it left the player's foot/leg/whatever, just as if the player threw the ball.

Of course, you have a load of idiots who want to argue that a hard hit ball hitting the arm or shoulder of a player trying to get in front of it cause it to leave play, but that is not what it should be. We are talking about a ball that without the player's contact pushing the ball out of play would not have.

Too much overthinking the issue. If you feel the ball was losing power and then regains speeds and often changes direction, it probably is not a deflected ball "off" the defender, but a ball that was deflected by the defender.

Mike, was this in the monthly rules clarifications? (iow, can you provide a citation) and yes, I agree with your premise. just looking for where to cite the clarification.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

Mike, was this in the monthly rules clarifications? (iow, can you provide a citation) and yes, I agree with your premise. just looking for where to cite the clarification.

This was posted in a thread last September.

July 2009 ASA Rules Clarifications:

PLAY: With no outs and R1 on 2B, B2 hits a line drive to F7. R1 is off on the hit and headed toward 3B when F7 misses the sinking line drive and knocks the ball forward on the ground in front of him. While running in and trying to scoop up the ball, F7 kicks the ball into the 3B dugout. When the ball entered the 3B dugout, R1 is two steps from 3B and B2 is not yet to 1B. Which bases should R1 and B2 be awarded?

RULING: R1 is awarded home and B2 is awarded 2B. The ball being kicked into dead ball territory would be treated the same as if F7 threw the ball into dead ball territory. Each runner would be awarded two bases from the time the ball left F7’s foot. (Rule 8, Section 5G)

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

This was posted in a thread last September.

July 2009 ASA Rules Clarifications:

PLAY: With no outs and R1 on 2B, B2 hits a line drive to F7. R1 is off on the hit and headed toward 3B when F7 misses the sinking line drive and knocks the ball forward on the ground in front of him. While running in and trying to scoop up the ball, F7 kicks the ball into the 3B dugout. When the ball entered the 3B dugout, R1 is two steps from 3B and B2 is not yet to 1B. Which bases should R1 and B2 be awarded?

RULING: R1 is awarded home and B2 is awarded 2B. The ball being kicked into dead ball territory would be treated the same as if F7 threw the ball into dead ball territory. Each runner would be awarded two bases from the time the ball left F7’s foot. (Rule 8, Section 5G)

thanks! next round on me at Chisolms

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

This was posted in a thread last September.

July 2009 ASA Rules Clarifications:

PLAY: With no outs and R1 on 2B, B2 hits a line drive to F7. R1 is off on the hit and headed toward 3B when F7 misses the sinking line drive and knocks the ball forward on the ground in front of him. While running in and trying to scoop up the ball, F7 kicks the ball into the 3B dugout. When the ball entered the 3B dugout, R1 is two steps from 3B and B2 is not yet to 1B. Which bases should R1 and B2 be awarded?

RULING: R1 is awarded home and B2 is awarded 2B. The ball being kicked into dead ball territory would be treated the same as if F7 threw the ball into dead ball territory. Each runner would be awarded two bases from the time the ball left F7’s foot. (Rule 8, Section 5G)

It baffles me why ASA would use a case play whose "result" is the same as a book/ground rule double. If they want to illustrate the point, they should really use "R1 on 1st base who has reached 2nd base when F7 kicks the ball."

They explain the ruling, but do a disservice to their own explanation by making it look like a regular two base award on a batted ball.

Not their greatest clarification.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

It baffles me why ASA would use a case play whose "result" is the same as a book/ground rule double. If they want to illustrate the point, they should really use "R1 on 1st base who has reached 2nd base when F7 kicks the ball."

They explain the ruling, but do a disservice to their own explanation by making it look like a regular two base award on a batted ball.

Not their greatest clarification.

Not only that, the play is totally far-fetched to begin with. Unless F7 is Lionel Messi, there's no way in hell a kicked ball from out there would enter the third base dugout before R1, who was heading to third on the hit, reaches third and the BR reaches first.

Of course, since the play mentioned that F7 was a male, maybe both R1 and the BR are in the neighborhood of 400 lbs. Then it would be more realistic.