Illegal Glove

[Manny A]

I, too, would argue that the appeal would stand. Bases passed are bases achieved, so the "play" that is given as an option for the offensive coach to choose from would not be affected by his/her runner's infraction. The umpire would certainly not tell the coach, "Well, if you accept the play, your runner will score if the defense doesn't subsequently appeal the fact that she missed third."

[Tex]

Agree with BretMan and CeiclOne.

I had a very similar case this year while BU.

On a hit ground ball to the outfield, there was obstruction at 3rd base (blocking the base), and the runner missed 3rd base on the way to scoring at home plate.

The defense properly appealed the missed base.

I immediately called both coaches and the PU together and explained, that there were 2 infractions on this play at 3rd base: obstruction by the 3rd baseman and the runner missed 3rd base. I sent the scored runner back to 3rd base.

Both coaches agreed. Next batter. I still don't know if this was the proper call, but all were pleased.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Tex

Agree with BretMan and CeiclOne.

I had a very similar case this year while BU.

On a hit ground ball to the outfield, there was obstruction at 3rd base (blocking the base), and the runner missed 3rd base on the way to scoring at home plate.

The defense properly appealed the missed base.

I immediately called both coaches and the PU together and explained, that there were 2 infractions on this play at 3rd base: obstruction by the 3rd baseman and the runner missed 3rd base. I sent the scored runner back to 3rd base.

Both coaches agreed. Next batter. I still don't know if this was the proper call, but all were pleased.

It's not. But this is different from the OP, where a coach first has to choose between play and penalty, and THEN there's an appeal.

In your case, you should not hold a press conference - you simply announce the obstruction and the award (home - not 3rd!). The offense then has the opportunity to retouch home, 3rd, home, if they want to. You don't announce this though. Then, after it's obvious whether offense is going to do anything, the defense may appeal the miss - and she's out.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

It's not. But this is different from the OP, where a coach first has to choose between play and penalty, and THEN there's an appeal.

In your case, you should not hold a press conference - you simply announce the obstruction and the award (home - not 3rd!). The offense then has the opportunity to retouch home, 3rd, home, if they want to. You don't announce this though. Then, after it's obvious whether offense is going to do anything, the defense may appeal the miss - and she's out.

I guess you are saying that time to the runner had time to score and that only the missed base was caused by the obstruction.

If so, then why is she out, the award should negate the OBS?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I guess you are saying that time to the runner had time to score and that only the missed base was caused by the obstruction.

Grammar's a bit odd here, so I'm not positive I know what you're trying to ask me... but...

If so, then why is she out, the award should negate the OBS?

She's out because she's required to run the bases correctly. This is made exceedingly clear in the rulebook. The award of home is intended to negate the OBS. And she's allowed to fulfill her baserunning duties when that award is made before any appeals will be honored. But if she chooses not to do so ...

[MD Longhorn]

Let me restate a bit, after re-reading your first statement. There's a school of thought out there that if the OBS CAUSES the miss (which wasn't clear in the OP, but a possibility), then the miss should be ignored. It's not exactly supported by the way the rule is written, but I get that and believe Irish belongs to that school of thought (not meaning to put words in anyone's mouth).

But even if you believe in that, and subscribe to that school ... Tex's ruling is still incorrect - the award of 3rd is wrong no matter which way you look at this. It's either an out, or it's home. Can't be 3rd.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Let me restate a bit, after re-reading your first statement. There's a school of thought out there that if the OBS CAUSES the miss (which wasn't clear in the OP, but a possibility), then the miss should be ignored. It's not exactly supported by the way the rule is written, but I get that and believe Irish belongs to that school of thought (not meaning to put words in anyone's mouth).

Interesting school of thought. And that's the case for small white ball play, at least under pro rules.

But I've always believed that in softball, runners were still obligated to touch their bases, even if obstructed from them initially. That's how the rules read anyway. The time it takes for them to adjust and eventually touch the base after being hindered is taken into account during the obstruction award.