The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 19, 2005, 06:50pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Maine
Posts: 160
Recieved this from my state UIC from Kevin Ryan.

Dave and Staff,

There is apparently a new glove out on the market that has the fingers sewn together except for the last inch or so. After reviewing the web site data and picture it is my opinion this glove is not a glove but a mitt. Therefore it would be illegal for infielders, except first baseman and catchers in ASA Championship play. The glove is made by a company called Akadema and is called the reptilian infielder model. Please make your staffs and folks in your area aware of this. The web you can see this glove on is here. Click here and then click on the Akadema logo.





Thanks for the help;



Kevin G. Ryan

Associated Director of Membership Services

Director of Umpires


__________________
Ken
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 19, 2005, 07:36pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Crete, Nebraska
Posts: 734
Send a message via ICQ to shipwreck
Unless I am looking at a wrong picture, this looks like a glove not a mitt to me. Dave
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 19, 2005, 08:40pm
JEL JEL is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 910
Dave,

You may be looking at the wrong picture. When you click on the link, you then have to click the Akadema link. Eventually you get to model ABU 73, and Crystal Bustos' pictures. You can then enlarge the mitt/glove, or whatever it is. It looks like a mitt to me though. Try this link, or maybe some of the compooter gurus could post the pic in this thread, (that's beyond me).

http://www.akademapro.com/fastpitch.html
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 19, 2005, 08:47pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: woodville, tx
Posts: 3,156
As all the looks of a mitt....
__________________
glen _______________________________
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things
that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines.
Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover."
--Mark Twain.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 19, 2005, 09:54pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: West Michigan (Comstock Park)
Posts: 176
Quote:
Originally posted by JEL


You may be looking at the wrong picture. When you click on the link, you then have to click the Akadema link. Eventually you get to model ABU 73, and Crystal Bustos' pictures. You can then enlarge the mitt/glove, or whatever it is. It looks like a mitt to me though. Try this link, or maybe some of the compooter gurus could post the pic in this thread, (that's beyond me).

http://www.akademapro.com/fastpitch.html
Don't care that Akadema calls it a "glove", it looks like a mitt to me also.
Sam
__________________
Perfection is a goal which we work to attain
NFHS/Little League
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 20, 2005, 12:11am
SRW SRW is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 1,342
Image from the website

__________________
We see with our eyes. Fans and parents see with their hearts.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 20, 2005, 07:23am
JEL JEL is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 910
Yeah.. I knew someone could put the picture here!

Way to go SRW, Thanks (show-off :-), j/k of course)



....bkbjones, uh-oh, thats 2 in the same week for SRW!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 20, 2005, 08:15am
SRW SRW is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 1,342
Talking

I better stop posting and just lurk for a while... my head might get too big for bkbjones' shoulders...
__________________
We see with our eyes. Fans and parents see with their hearts.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 20, 2005, 09:29am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 38
This glove is not new to the market. I've seen it used in PONY, NSA, FED, NCAA, NPF, and NCAA games since spring 2004. No umpire has ever questioned whether it is a glove. All anyone has to do is get one and put it on. It clearly is a glove. There is no way that anyone would ever call it a mitt.

I checked the NCAA site for rules and regulations (in the absence of this information on the ASA website). There are no NCAA rules, regulations, interpretations, umpire guidelines, etc. that would define this glove to be a mitt in disguise. So, it appear that some umpires are trying to convince others to make a judgment call on this glove. But, this is not a judgment call. It has to be a rules call. In the absence of definitive, clearly worded and publicly available rules, this glove cannot be thrown out of a game simply because some umpire mistakenly thinks it might be a mitt. JMO.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 20, 2005, 10:06am
JEL JEL is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 910
Quote:
Originally posted by EdJW
This glove is not new to the market. I've seen it used in PONY, NSA, FED, NCAA, NPF, and NCAA games since spring 2004. No umpire has ever questioned whether it is a glove. All anyone has to do is get one and put it on. It clearly is a glove. There is no way that anyone would ever call it a mitt.

I checked the NCAA site for rules and regulations (in the absence of this information on the ASA website). There are no NCAA rules, regulations, interpretations, umpire guidelines, etc. that would define this glove to be a mitt in disguise. So, it appear that some umpires are trying to convince others to make a judgment call on this glove. But, this is not a judgment call. It has to be a rules call. In the absence of definitive, clearly worded and publicly available rules, this glove cannot be thrown out of a game simply because some umpire mistakenly thinks it might be a mitt. JMO.

That may be true for some. NFHS of course should have no problem since either may be used. I haven't checked any others, cause I rarely call other leagues, I will check NCAA before next season starts up though.

The main point though, Kevin Ryan is not just "some umpire". he is the ASA Director of Umpires...The BIG BOSS! This Akadema thing may look like a shoe for all I care, but if the ASA ruling is as Duke's post stated, I won't allow it for any other than F2 and F3.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 20, 2005, 10:45am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Woodstock, GA; Atlanta area
Posts: 2,822
Agree with JEL on the basic point; if Kevin Ryan makes that interpretation, then it is a mitt. But, aside from that, it looks like a mitt to me, anyway.

There are no rulebook definitions of glove and mitt because the commom definitions of those terms are adequate. The difference between a glove and a mitt is defined by the fingers; a glove has a separate slot for each finger, whether the player uses them or not. A mitt has a thumb slot, and the rest of the fingers have one larger undefined area (short for mitten). This mitt shows only fingertip definitions so that it might appear like a glove, but certainly appears to have the one large space.

Simple test, EdJW; stick your hand in one. Separate fingers, glove; one large area, mitt. Anyway, in ASA championship play, will call per National Director of Umpires, even if it has fingers.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 21, 2005, 09:36am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 38
Taking you to be correct as to the common way to tell a glove from a mitt. Per what you said, separate fingers make it a glove. The Academa glove has separate fingers. Get one and put your hand into it. You will immediately see that it has full size separate fingers. It's nothing like your description of a mitt. Perhaps people should buy one of these gloves and check out the actual glove, before shooting off thier mouths. And spreading false information.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 21, 2005, 09:45am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 38
By the way, everyone should read the inital post in this string where the poster admits that he has never actually checked out this glove. He says that all he has done is check out information on the Academa website and has looked at a picture.

Based on the unambiguous statement made in the first post that the glove has never been examined, it is beyond believe that an umpire anywhere would throw this glove out if used anywhere other than 1B and catcher positions. Someone says he saw a picture and from the picture he thinks its a mitt. And others umpires jump on and say that's good enough to throw the glove out of a game.

I think ASA has to do much better than this regarding equipment and throwing gloves and girls out of games.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 21, 2005, 10:23am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 156
It may very well be a glove. It may very well be a mitt. I'm not going to argue on that point one way or another.

However, if your state UIC says that they consider it a mitt and should be called as such, you enforce it as a mitt until you hear differently. Coaches have a problem with it? Keep the printout of the correspondance from your UIC to show the coach.

You call what they say to call, not what you feel is best. So if this were my state UIC telling me that it's a mitt, no one besides F2 or F3 are using it. If they then switch and say they were wrong that it's a glove, then I start allowing it. Simple chain of command that must be followed. If not, what good is having a state UIC if no one listens to what he says?

-Josh
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 21, 2005, 10:40am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Personally, I'd like the measurements before declaring a glove illegal. If this does have fingers, then I believe the only thing that would make it illegal would be the dimensions of the glove.

I have two umpires who work the NPF and they have not seen the glove. Doesn't mean it isn't there, just that they haven't seen it.

There is a college showcase here this weekend and I will be looking to find one. Not to disqualify it, but to examine one if I can get the player's permission.



__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:13pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1