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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 01, 2013, 11:36am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okla21fan View Post
Then the 'State rules interpreter' came out with a clarification that this was not illegal unless 'the umpire felt it was a distraction to the batter'. So does this now only apply to the pitcher?????
...
but what are other states, local chapters doing?
Your state interpreter is wrong, IMO. The preseason guide doesn't limit the restriction to pitchers and to umpire judgement on distraction of batters.

In my neck, we are enforcing it for all players, regardless of position.

That said, Yes, I think it's a bogus rule. Who cares that the right fielder has an optic yellow "Mizuno" on her glove?
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 01, 2013, 11:47am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
The biggest nuisance new rule is reporting subs to the head coach.
I'm hoping the interpretation is "if he/she should have heard" and the scorekeeper or assistant being a communicator to the head coach.
If they want to be specific about the head coach, maybe s/he should be required to be in a certain location in the dugout or wear an orange hat, or optic yellow vest.

I will get the attention of a coach from the appropriate team that is in or near the dugout, and give that individual the change. I will be sure I am within a distance a normal speaking voice will be sufficient and will wait for acknowledgment. I'm NOT chasing down or holding up a game waiting on a head coach to finish whatever it is they may be doing to give them a change. Like umpires, they have many other duties involving the game and players that are far more important than acknowledging a change for the other team.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 01, 2013, 11:49am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
Your state interpreter is wrong, IMO. The preseason guide doesn't limit the restriction to pitchers and to umpire judgement on distraction of batters.

In my neck, we are enforcing it for all players, regardless of position.

That said, Yes, I think it's a bogus rule. Who cares that the right fielder has an optic yellow "Mizuno" on her glove?
While I don't disagree, a state interpreter cannot be wrong when instructing umpires within his/her area of responsibility. NFHS rules are suggestions which can or cannot, in whole or in part, be utilized by the local associations as they elect.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 01, 2013, 12:27pm
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On the NFHS glove rule...

Gloves/mitts shall not have an optic-colored marking on the outside or inside that gives the appearance of the ball.

So, do we as umpires get to decide if whatever bit of green on the glove gives the appearance of the ball or not? As this rule reads, it doesn't necessarily ban any and all optic-colored markings, only those that could be mistaken for the ball.

Some of the gloves I've addressed have looked like the example in the NFHS Preseason Guide, with a big optic logo running up the middle finger that maybe possibly might look like a sliver of the ball peeking through the space between the fingers.

Others only had a small optic logo on the velcro wrist strap.

Suppose I see a kid with an optic-colored logo on her glove but, in my judgment, it does not give the appearance of the ball?

Or, do we just remove the element of judgment (which is often the FED way of doing things) and toss all gloves with any optic color on them?

Last edited by BretMan; Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 12:32pm.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 01, 2013, 12:39pm
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Maybe they should come out with a glove list.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 01, 2013, 12:50pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
NFHS rules are suggestions which can or cannot, in whole or in part, be utilized by the local associations as they elect.
Really? I never realized that. I thought the rules as written had to be strictly complied with, except where state adoptions are allowed. Learned something new...
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 01, 2013, 12:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BretMan View Post
On the NFHS glove rule...

Gloves/mitts shall not have an optic-colored marking on the outside or inside that gives the appearance of the ball.

So, do we as umpires get to decide if whatever bit of green on the glove gives the appearance of the ball or not? As this rule reads, it doesn't necessarily ban any and all optic-colored markings, only those that could be mistaken for the ball.

Some of the gloves I've addressed have looked like the example in the NFHS Preseason Guide, with a big optic logo running up the middle finger that maybe possibly might look like a sliver of the ball peeking through the space between the fingers.

Others only had a small optic logo on the velcro wrist strap.

Suppose I see a kid with an optic-colored logo on her glove but, in my judgment, it does not give the appearance of the ball?

Or, do we just remove the element of judgment (which is often the FED way of doing things) and toss all gloves with any optic color on them?
Ahhh, yes. Another opportunity for umpires to rule differently on the same issue.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 01, 2013, 02:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
Really? I never realized that. I thought the rules as written had to be strictly complied with, except where state adoptions are allowed. Learned something new...
OK, let's clarify.

To IrishMafia, who relates to ASA structure, a local association equals an NFHS State Association. Each State can adopt their own rules, can interpret their own rules differently; even if it varies from the NFHS official ruling.

Read the preamble regarding state associations may make modifications, and the final block just before the rules start, that all requests for interpretations and clarifications be forwarded to the state association.

Toss no gloves. 1) Use common sense judgment (like the state interpretor telling you it doesn't matter in any case but the pitcher, 2) at worst, say that glove cannot be used as-is by the pitcher, 3) let them cover or change the color of any marking you deem offensive (sharpies do well), 4) use common sense, and 5) did I say use common sense?

Reporting subs has always been something you were to tell the head coach; after all, hasn't that always been the person defined as responsible for all communications? That head coach can delegate that to an assistant or scorekeeper, but we were always supposed to "announce immediately the change(s) to the opposing team." There has never been a responsibility in NFHS to tell a scorekeeper, and I, for one, don't care if the coach tells the scorekeeper, if they get it right. The only thing that matters is the PU official lineup, and what it says.

As a practical matter, it is easy enough to go half way, get their attention, announce in their general direction. If they ignore you, who cares? You recorded, you announced; no longer your problem. And going all the way to them only drags out the game, and gives them another chance to take a private shot, if they are so inclined.

Now, if you can do it all in one clean shot, fine. If they want you to do anything else, your responsibility is to tell the head coach; period. "Coach, we have 5, Johnson, for 7, Smith, in the 5 hole". Done.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 01, 2013, 03:15pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane Blue View Post
That's an easy one to me. I announce all subs verbally and loud by saying Coach ( I look to score keeper to make sure they are looking) # -- for # -- again # -- for # -- I do this announcement for every sub. I do not move more than a few step towards the team I am announcing changes to. The only change for me is that I don't say Scorekeeper any more.So far no problems.
Well in ESF we have since last year a good one! The coach making a substitutian give PU a sheet with suitnumbers and positions of the out going and in coming players. The PU holds up the sheet to the scorekeepers until they give a sign that the sub is on the sheets, then the PU has to make sure it is also in his linesheet. We can't talk to the coach or scorlekeepers. This is a speed up rule... ... ...
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 01, 2013, 05:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
Toss no gloves.
I used "toss" more or less as a shorthanded way of saying, "Tell the player or her coach that the glove either has to be replaced or corrected".

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
1) Use common sense judgment (like the state interpretor telling you it doesn't matter in any case but the pitcher, 2) at worst, say that glove cannot be used as-is by the pitcher
Our state interpretor is telling us exactly the same thing that the FED rule book and point of emphasis says: This rule applies to ALL players.

I don't necessarily disagree that it should only be a possible issue with the pitcher's glove, but if we don't address it uniformly for all players then we are going against what we've been instructed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
3) let them cover or change the color of any marking you deem offensive (sharpies do well)
Naturally. That is a common fix and can bring the glove into compliance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
4) use common sense, and 5) did I say use common sense?
Common sense isn't always so common. My own personal notion of common sense is that the rule is ticky-tacky, unnecessary and that no little swatch of green cloth on the outside of a glove is going to make me think that a player has the ball inside of her glove. I would also say that neon green isn't the same color as optic yellow.

Absent a more precise definition or guideline, one man's illegal glove will be another man's legal glove. That will lead to uneven enforcement of the rule.That's the kind of thing that can make teams think the umpires don't know what they're doing or lead to agruments.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 01, 2013, 07:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKBUmp View Post
You may want to check your rule book.

FED 6-5-2 The pitcher may request the other ball before throwing a warm up pitch by giving the ball in her posession to the plate umpire, the pitcher has now made a choice and must pitch that ball until such time as the ball goes out of play or becomes blocked.
That addresses two different issues at two different times.

"The pitcher may request the other ball before throwing a warm up pitch." That addresses the start of the inning.

"The pitcher must pitch that ball until such time as the ball goes out of play." That does not say that she can't continue to pitch the ball AFTER it goes out of play. It just says she has to use it UNTIL it goes out of play.

Have you every asked a pitcher why she wants a new ball? Maybe the one you have has a nick in it you didn't see, she can't grip it as well or a ball got returned to you that looked like the game ball but really wasn't.

I want pitchers to throw strikes, so I give the pitcher a ball that she is comfortable with. It's not a protestable issue. It's really just a mechanic/procedure. I think we have bigger fish to fry than that.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 01, 2013, 08:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EsqUmp View Post
That addresses two different issues at two different times.

"The pitcher may request the other ball before throwing a warm up pitch." That addresses the start of the inning.

"The pitcher must pitch that ball until such time as the ball goes out of play." That does not say that she can't continue to pitch the ball AFTER it goes out of play. It just says she has to use it UNTIL it goes out of play.

Have you every asked a pitcher why she wants a new ball? Maybe the one you have has a nick in it you didn't see, she can't grip it as well or a ball got returned to you that looked like the game ball but really wasn't.

I want pitchers to throw strikes, so I give the pitcher a ball that she is comfortable with. It's not a protestable issue. It's really just a mechanic/procedure. I think we have bigger fish to fry than that.
So you are choosing to ignore a rule then? If the ball is truly unplayable, the pitcher can throw it in for you to inspect, and then yes you remove it from play and replace it. If after throwing a pitch, the pitcher just decides she wants another ball for no reason and you give it to her, you are violating the ball rotation rule. And any ball that goes out of play is not suppose to be put back into play until it has been inspected by the umpire. How do you know somone hasnt snuck in a ball that isnt legal? Wouldnt be the first time I have heard about mush balls being thrown back into a game.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 01, 2013, 08:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKBUmp View Post
So you are choosing to ignore a rule then? If the ball is truly unplayable, the pitcher can throw it in for you to inspect, and then yes you remove it from play and replace it. If after throwing a pitch, the pitcher just decides she wants another ball for no reason and you give it to her, you are violating the ball rotation rule. And any ball that goes out of play is not suppose to be put back into play until it has been inspected by the umpire. How do you know somone hasnt snuck in a ball that isnt legal? Wouldnt be the first time I have heard about mush balls being thrown back into a game.
I'm not ignoring a rule. You are misapplying the "rule" in Federation and it isn't a rule in ASA. It is a procedure covered under the R/S.

What is the problem with getting the ball back from the pitcher, tossing out a new one and rubbing the old one up a bit and putting it back in the ball bag? And if Federation and ASA are so big on ball rotation, why doesn't it say that the umpire must inspect every ball that goes out of play? If the ball rolls an inch over the dead ball line, will you not allow that ball back in? If the ball hits equipment and becomes blocked, are you switching that ball? If the defender intentionally or unintentionally carries a ball out of play, are you changing that ball too?
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 02, 2013, 07:08am
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Not only do I inspect all balls that go out of play (I mean way out of play, not those that barely enter a dugout and are immediately retrieved, etc.), I also inspect balls that are sharply fouled off of backstop fencing and dugouts. In fact, I inspect balls that smack off the catcher's mask, but that's really to give the catcher time to recover.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 02, 2013, 07:26am
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Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
Not only do I inspect all balls that go out of play (I mean way out of play, not those that barely enter a dugout and are immediately retrieved, etc.), I also inspect balls that are sharply fouled off of backstop fencing and dugouts. In fact, I inspect balls that smack off the catcher's mask, but that's really to give the catcher time to recover.
Any ball which leaves the umpire's sight should come back into play through the umpire's hands.

If a ball goes out of play, the ball in my bag is often in the catcher's hands before the batted ball stops rolling. Do not wait for a ball to come back. If it gets thrown back onto the field, I ask for that ball before it gets to the pitcher.

And unless it is the only ball available, if it goes out of play, it does not immediately return to play. Why? Basically, because it is the prescribed procedure and if consistent, the fairest manner in which the umpire can maintain order in the game.
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