2013 CCA Umpire Manual

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

The difference is between looking back over your shoulder or simply looking up. I prefer to look simply look up, rather than back over my shoulder to see the ball.

As I specifically wrote, this is if there is no play on the BR @ 2nd base. You have changed the facts to argue a point.

Sticking with my play (because that's the one written in the manual and the one we are discussing), can you say why it is better to go inside with NO play at 2nd base?

You and I are going to agree here. Yes, when a ball is hit to RF with no runners on and U1 chases, reading the play for 1) inside calling position at second or 2) staying outside for the runner into third (which is you play) is perfect application of NCAA mechanics. It affords U3 the best option at any base, based on the play. I am in total agreement, however the big lynchpin is U3 properly reading the play.

Now, while I'm not going to defend Irish, I will say that ASA's inside positioning is necessary because of something he is omitting. In 3 umpire ASA, when U1 chases at any times, U3 has responsibility for BR at first base; NCAA give the responsibility to PU for BR at first in this specific case. Therefore, U3 would be cutting across the diamond (possibly pitcher's plate) to cover first, take the runner to second and then to third. This deeper positioning does afford U3 an open look to stay out of any throwing lanes (yes, Mike . . throwing lane) that F8/F9/F4 would use to throw to third. But there is reading the ball and play for optional position, which is something ASA does not direct very well. It is getting better, but needs to vastly improve.

Therefore the debate isn't "outside vs. inside", but whether U3 should have responsibility at first base.

[shagpal]

The "chute" play is ASA way of accommodating for that slow and immobile silverback PU while torturing the usually speedy rookie "rabbit" U3 in true "not all umpires are created equal" fashion. If the play is obviously gonna be extra bases, how hard is it for an experienced PU to read that and watch the touch at first? Even Irish could do that.

Originally Posted by Big Slick

You and I are going to agree here. Yes, when a ball is hit to RF with no runners on and U1 chases, reading the play for 1) inside calling position at second or 2) staying outside for the runner into third (which is you play) is perfect application of NCAA mechanics. It affords U3 the best option at any base, based on the play. I am in total agreement, however the big lynchpin is U3 properly reading the play.

Now, while I'm not going to defend Irish, I will say that ASA's inside positioning is necessary because of something he is omitting. In 3 umpire ASA, when U1 chases at any times, U3 has responsibility for BR at first base; NCAA give the responsibility to PU for BR at first in this specific case. Therefore, U3 would be cutting across the diamond (possibly pitcher's plate) to cover first, take the runner to second and then to third. This deeper positioning does afford U3 an open look to stay out of any throwing lanes (yes, Mike . . throwing lane) that F8/F9/F4 would use to throw to third. But there is reading the ball and play for optional position, which is something ASA does not direct very well. It is getting better, but needs to vastly improve.

Therefore the debate isn't "outside vs. inside", but whether U3 should have responsibility at first base.

[x-tremeump]

I am sorry that I missed all of this... Kill The Clones I get angry at the OLD TIMERS and delete the forum from my favorites.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by shagpal

The "chute" play is ASA way of accommodating for that slow and immobile silverback PU while torturing the usually speedy rookie "rabbit" U3 in true "not all umpires are created equal" fashion. If the play is obviously gonna be extra bases, how hard is it for an experienced PU to read that and watch the touch at first? Even Irish could do that.

The way you people whine, you would think it was a 90' field. It isn't that hard to cover a small FP field.

FYI, in ASA if the PU doesn't have any other duties, guess what the PU is doing when the BR takes off to 1B?

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

FYI, in ASA if the PU doesn't have any other duties, guess what the PU is doing when the BR takes off to 1B?

I think this is something that needs to be changed. What needs to be taught is to "tail the BR only when there is a play at first." NCAA finally made this explicit. Not that I'm saying it is correct because NCAA said it, it is just plainly "right."

Ok, let me justify. ASA's work force varies in experience and aptitude. To teach to this crowd, ASA very much strives for the simplest mechanics - inside/outside in an example as well as the one we are discussing about U3 taking first base when U1 chases. This is simple, very few mechanics are situational.

So ASA says: trail the BR to first with no runners on. But why? On a base hit, BU comes inside to take the runner, what is the PU going to see that BU can't? NOTHING. Except that we have two umpires that are about 20 feet from each other. That just looks goofy, and even more goofy on the DVD.