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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 07, 2013, 06:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
Because ASA rules award a base to the batter, not runners. Only runners forced may advance without liability to be put out, but ONLY to the base forced. Rules specifically note that the runner is in jeopardy should s/he attempt to advance beyond that base.

ASA rules also specifically note that a run cannot score after the 3rd out of the half inning has been executed.
Isn't "Only runners forced may advance without liability to be put out, but ONLY to the base forced" true in all codes?
.................................................. ..................

So R1 des not score because the third out occurred before R1 reached HP.
Still wonder if "philosophy or just incidental diff?"
.................................................. ..................

Also, for others, other codes also say a run cannot score after the 3rd out.
I guess I need to go to the books.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 07, 2013, 08:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
Isn't "Only runners forced may advance without liability to be put out, but ONLY to the base forced" true in all codes?
.................................................. ..................

So R1 des not score because the third out occurred before R1 reached HP.
Still wonder if "philosophy or just incidental diff?"
.................................................. ..................

Also, for others, other codes also say a run cannot score after the 3rd out.
I guess I need to go to the books.
You can check all the books. You won't find any real justification for the run scoring when the third out is made before the run scores other than a case book ruling by DA in NCAA and MS in NFHS. No where is there logic for runners awarded bases on a walk to the batter, they are simply advanced by force; a force that disappears when a trailing runner is put out!

In fact, if they were all awarded bases, wouldn't they advance even when NOT forced? And, wouldn't the run NOT score if a runner failed to advance and that (force) was appealed for the third out? How is that consistent, or logical?
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 08, 2013, 11:46am
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Fed (NFHS) 8-4-3a Effect

"Art.3 . . . A runner is entitled to advance without libility to be put out when:
a. forced to vacate a base because the batter was awarded first base.
Effect: (F.P.) The ball remains in play unless it is blocked. Any runner affected is entitled to one base and may advance farther at their own risk if the ball is in play. (S.P.) The ball is dead."

Play 9.1.1 Situation D
"With two outs and R1, R2, and R3 on base, B6 receivs ball four. R3 touches second and is then tagged off base for the third out before R1 has reached home base. Ruling:The run scores; R1 was awarded home as soon as ball four was declared. (8-1-3a Effect; 9-1-1 Exception b). "

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Old Fri Feb 08, 2013, 02:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Greene View Post
Fed (NFHS) 8-4-3a Effect

"Art.3 . . . A runner is entitled to advance without libility to be put out when:
a. forced to vacate a base because the batter was awarded first base.
Effect: (F.P.) The ball remains in play unless it is blocked. Any runner affected is entitled to one base and may advance farther at their own risk if the ball is in play. (S.P.) The ball is dead."

Play 9.1.1 Situation D
"With two outs and R1, R2, and R3 on base, B6 receivs ball four. R3 touches second and is then tagged off base for the third out before R1 has reached home base. Ruling:The run scores; R1 was awarded home as soon as ball four was declared. (8-1-3a Effect; 9-1-1 Exception b). "

Who left the gate open and let this stranger wander in here?
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Last edited by IRISHMAFIA; Mon Feb 11, 2013 at 07:44pm.
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Old Fri Feb 08, 2013, 09:44pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
Who left the gate open and let this stranger wonder in here?
Hey, I'm still on the top side of the grass! (Although I'm getting old.)

I drop by here occasionally to see if ya'll are still around.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 09, 2013, 12:31am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Greene View Post
Hey, I'm still on the top side of the grass! (Although I'm getting old.)

I drop by here occasionally to see if ya'll are still around.
Good for you. You should stop by more often.
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Old Sat Feb 09, 2013, 09:43am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
Good for you. You should stop by more often.
agreed
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 09, 2013, 08:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Greene View Post
Fed (NFHS) 8-4-3a Effect

"Art.3 . . . A runner is entitled to advance without libility to be put out when:
a. forced to vacate a base because the batter was awarded first base.
Effect: (F.P.) The ball remains in play unless it is blocked. Any runner affected is entitled to one base and may advance farther at their own risk if the ball is in play. (S.P.) The ball is dead."

Play 9.1.1 Situation D
"With two outs and R1, R2, and R3 on base, B6 receivs ball four. R3 touches second and is then tagged off base for the third out before R1 has reached home base. Ruling:The run scores; R1 was awarded home as soon as ball four was declared. (8-1-3a Effect; 9-1-1 Exception b). "

Yet, the rule you cite clearly does NOT state the base is an award; "entitled to advance" should not supercede other rules which make the run unscored if the third out is made prior to the run actually crossing the plate.

Nor is it listed with "awards".
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 11, 2013, 01:28pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
Yet, the rule you cite clearly does NOT state the base is an award; "entitled to advance" should not supercede other rules which make the run unscored if the third out is made prior to the run actually crossing the plate.

Nor is it listed with "awards".
Yes... I agree that "clearly" the run should not score in NHFS... yet their own published cases and clarifications scores the run, despite the utter lack of rules support.
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Old Mon Feb 11, 2013, 01:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
Yes... I agree that "clearly" the run should not score in NHFS... yet their own published cases and clarifications scores the run, despite the utter lack of rules support.
I'm not a fan of the NFHS interpretation of this situation, yet they appear to be relying on the following part of the EFFECT: Any runner affected is entitled to one base and may advance farther at their own risk if the ball is in play.
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Old Mon Feb 11, 2013, 02:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crabby_Bob View Post
I'm not a fan of the NFHS interpretation of this situation, yet they appear to be relying on the following part of the EFFECT: Any runner affected is entitled to one base and may advance farther at their own risk if the ball is in play.
Being entitle to one base is completely different than being awarded one base... but this Don Quixote stopped trying to bash this windmill long ago.
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