Use the Force?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Because on the play at 2nd, it's not obviously an appeal --- as there is another perfectly valid reason to be tagging the runner... she's off the base and liable to be put out. Nothing make it clear that the fielder is appealing the miss, but rather she's simply tagging a player.

At first, the runner is NOT in jeopardy of a normal tag for overrunning the base, so the tag of that player IS obviously an appeal of the miss.

Playing devil's advocate.

Most, if not all, of the times that F3 would tag a BR (now R) that has overrun first base is to appeal an attempt to second. So, I don't think that appeal is obvious, at all; and if appealing the wrong thing, the appeal should be denied!!

How do you differentiate THAT appeal (where the run would score even if you honored it) from an appeal of a missed base (where the run would not score)? Don't you have to ask what F3 is appealing?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Playing devil's advocate.

Most, if not all, of the times that F3 would tag a BR (now R) that has overrun first base is to appeal an attempt to second. So, I don't think that appeal is obvious, at all; and if appealing the wrong thing, the appeal should be denied!!

How do you differentiate THAT appeal (where the run would score even if you honored it) from an appeal of a missed base (where the run would not score)? Don't you have to ask what F3 is appealing?

FWIW, I've always thought it was bogus to consider tagging a BR who made an attempt to go to second base as an appeal. Why not just consider it a normal tag play of a runner off the base? If it were really an appeal, then a tag of the runner or the base should be honored. But a tag of first base for a BR who attempted to advance to second is not going to retire that runner. And as you point out, honoring that appeal has no bearing on determining when runs score.

That said, tags of BRs overrunning first base almost always comes with some sort of comment by the defense. You'll either hear, "TAG HER! SHE TURNED FOR SECOND!" or "TAG HER! SHE MISSED THE BAG!" Wouldn't hearing the latter comment, and/or clearly seeing from the BR's reaction that she KNEW she missed the bag be enough to indicate the tag is an appeal?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Playing devil's advocate.

Most, if not all, of the times that F3 would tag a BR (now R) that has overrun first base is to appeal an attempt to second. So, I don't think that appeal is obvious, at all; and if appealing the wrong thing, the appeal should be denied!!

How do you differentiate THAT appeal (where the run would score even if you honored it) from an appeal of a missed base (where the run would not score)? Don't you have to ask what F3 is appealing?

I was replying to Manny, who had asked about appealing a batter who had missed first and why the difference between that and the OP. I agree that it must be obviously an appeal of a miss, and not just a guess that the runner had made a move to second (or heaven forbid, TURNED LEFT instead of right).