STL-ATL IFF Call

[Andy]

Originally Posted by azbigdawg

How is the MLB rule phrased as far as "ordinary effort", if at all?

Huge Braves fan..more pissed about the errors than the call

Lots of discussion and arguing and insulting each other over on the baseball board about this call...pretty much par for the course on that board.

Somebody did post the MLB wording of the rule...does not define "ordinary effort".

About a 50-50 split over there on the call being correct or not.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Andy

Lots of discussion and arguing and insulting each other over on the baseball board about this call...pretty much par for the course on that board.

At least I don't see anyone over there putting down people on the Softball board.

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by Rich

At least I don't see anyone over there putting down people on the Softball board.

Then you are either VERY new or haven't been paying attention....insulting softball umpires is a pasttime over there.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by Rich

At least I don't see anyone over there putting down people on the Softball board...today

There, fixed that for ya!

[CecilOne]

Well, not exactly.
Bases loaded, one out, high fly just behind 2nd, F6 in position for catch, PU calling IFR.
F6 yields to charging F8 who muffs the catch. R1 & R2 try to advance, throw goes to 3rd, easy out for F5, but she just steps on base and steps away, BU rules safe, offense all confused.
Needed to explain, but no real dissent except runners & base coach saying they did not know it was IFR play, did not hear PU call, even though BU heard it. Just another "being aware" example.

Do you see this often?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Well, not exactly.
Bases loaded, one out, high fly just behind 2nd, F6 in position for catch, PU calling IFR.
F6 yields to charging F8 who muffs the catch. R1 & R2 try to advance, throw goes to 3rd, easy out for F5, but she just steps on base and steps away, BU rules safe, offense all confused.
Needed to explain, but no real dissent except runners & base coach saying they did not know it was IFR play, did not hear PU call, even though BU heard it. Just another "being aware" example.

Do you see this often?

In rec ball, happens all the time. First off, infielders often fail to catch routine fly balls. And when they drop one after I've called IFF, the runners don't understand that they do not have to try to advance. And fielders don't realize that tags of runners are required to retire them. And the coaches are equally clueless.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

In rec ball, happens all the time. First off, infielders often fail to catch routine fly balls. And when they drop one after I've called IFF, the runners don't understand that they do not have to try to advance. And fielders don't realize that tags of runners are required to retire them. And the coaches are equally clueless.

^^^That, exactly. +1

[tcannizzo]

Had one like that a couple weeks ago in 12-U Rec.
Bases loaded 1 out.
B hits a soft pop up where F3 had to run in and make a shoe string catch to which she fell down and her glove fell off. Obviously not a catch with ordinary effort.

I sold "NO CATCH" and signaled SAFE.

Well, nobody knew what to do, and there were at least three or more throws to in rundowns between 2nd and 3rd where they chased R2 back to 2B, and then between 3rd and Home, when F2 inadvertently stepped on Home with the ball, R1 OUT and then back to 3B to force out R2 who was still standing on 2B.

Had a rookie partner who wasn't sure what took place, so I had to make the Out call at 3B.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Andy

Lots of discussion and arguing and insulting each other over on the baseball board about this call...pretty much par for the course on that board.

Somebody did post the MLB wording of the rule...does not define "ordinary effort".

About a 50-50 split over there on the call being correct or not.

Count again... I don't see 50-50 at all. And if you weight it a little more heavily for those posters we know not to be idiots, and less for those we know to be trolls, it's even heavier in favor of it being the right call. I'd say there might be close to 50% who say that THEY would not have called it, but at least after the initial flurry, once the rule was brought into the discussion, most are saying it's the right call, whether or not they would have called it.

Personally, I'd have called it. But I also would not have faulted any partner for not calling it.

[tcannizzo]

My 2 cents.

I think the original rule was written in the day when players did not have the range they do today; and that it wasn't meant to address that particular sitch. It is the Infield Fly Rule, not the Infielder Fly Rule.

Suppose F6 did let the ball fall to the ground intentionally (as one might in the infield). Does anyone think there would have been a double or triple play? It would have probably just been a close play at 3B for one out, and as a stretch, possibly not even getting the out.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Suppose F6 did let the ball fall to the ground intentionally (as one might in the infield). Does anyone think there would have been a double or triple play? It would have probably just been a close play at 3B for one out, and as a stretch, possibly not even getting the out.

If F6 even considered it, he probably would have gone to second initially to get the force of R2, and then they could have made a tag play on R1 going to third or back to second.

Of course, the chance of forcing R2 at second would be slim. He would have to be less than halfway for any chance of getting thrown out.

[Crabby_Bob]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

...
Suppose F6 did let the ball fall to the ground intentionally (as one might in the infield). Does anyone think there would have been a double or triple play? It would have probably just been a close play at 3B for one out, and as a stretch, possibly not even getting the out.

F6 did let the ball fall to the ground. Not only was there no chance for a double play, there was no play at all. R1 and R2 each moved up one base.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

My 2 cents.

I think the original rule was written in the day when players did not have the range they do today; and that it wasn't meant to address that particular sitch. It is the Infield Fly Rule, not the Infielder Fly Rule.

Suppose F6 did let the ball fall to the ground intentionally (as one might in the infield). Does anyone think there would have been a double or triple play? It would have probably just been a close play at 3B for one out, and as a stretch, possibly not even getting the out.

The problem there is the "what ifs" do not figure into the rule or application, but the "what couldas" do.

[SNIPERBBB]

I think about the only way to satisfy the naysayers on this rule, other than get rid of it, is to make us mindreaders and bring intent into the rule.