STL-ATL IFF Call

[3afan]

my question is - all of the analysts keep saying the ump made the IFF call too late ........ what does that have to do with it? if its an IFF then its an IFF, making the call "late" has no impact on the BR's responsibilities/options.

what am i missing?

[dlsumpntx]

You're missing the fact that the talking heads often are clueless as to certain rules.

[SNIPERBBB]

I guess they dont get to attend the meetings where we get preached at(at least in Fed HS) to hold off the IFF as long as possible, especially on windy fields and we have till the next pitch to call IFF.

[3afan]

I thought maybe the timing DID matter in MLB ...

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by 3afan

my question is - all of the analysts keep saying the ump made the IFF call too late ........ what does that have to do with it? if its an IFF then its an IFF, making the call "late" has no impact on the BR's responsibilities/options.

what am i missing?

Based on what I was taught and is still used as indicators:
The SS never turned his back to the IF
The SS stopped under the ball, squared himself to the infield and raised his arms as to "call" for the ball

I understand why the call was made. In this instance, the extra set of eyes on the LF line offered a different perception than what is normally seen by a crew of 4 or less.

Thing the TH, fans and many players/coaches do not understand or appreciate about the rule is that it has nothing to do with the location of the ball or the fielder.

It should also be noted that the physical signal is usually secondary to a verbal declaration, so no one except those on the field actually know when the umpire made the call.

Now, in a tournament I worked today, there was a similar play, but the umpire judged it was not normal effort. Of course, all the AA started screaming infield fly like they really had a clue.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by 3afan

I thought maybe the timing DID matter in MLB ...

Nope. The rule is essentially the same in virtually every code I'm familiar with in both baseball and softball. The only differences I know of is when an IFF should have been called but wasn't. Some codes will allow the IFF to be retroactively enforced (especially when a force-play DP is turned), and others will allow for the play to stand, given that runners and coaches should know when the IFF should be called.

Many clinics I've been to teach that the IFF should be called when the ball reaches its apex. Yeah, that's going to be the case when the pop-up is routine and the infielder doesn't have far to move to make the ordinary effort catch.

But, like in this play, the infielder may have to move a significant distance to get under the ball, and by the time that happens, the ball could be pretty close to the end of its travel. So an IFF call could be late, even though it's appropriate.

I have no problem with the call here. F6 did have to go pretty far, but he was in position to make a catch, and the moment that happened, LFU made the call. It was immediately afterward that F6 decided to bail to give F7 the play.

[AtlUmpSteve]

I think we, as fellow umpires, should alos be mindful that the crew worked 6 man last when??

Any chance the LFU hesitated wondering if it was his call to make, mechanics wise?

That said, and YES, I am a disappointed Braves fan ....... righteous call.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I think we, as fellow umpires, should alos be mindful that the crew worked 6 man last when??

Any chance the LFU hesitated wondering if it was his call to make, mechanics wise?

That said, and YES, I am a disappointed Braves fan ....... righteous call.

It's hard to imagine that any mechanics manual for six man (if such a thing exists) makes an IFF the call of the outfield umpires, since most IFFs are called within easy calling distance of one of the four infield umpires. But then I'm just guessing since I've never worked six man.

[Andy]

I was listening to the game on the radio as I was driving home from work when the play happened. The radio guys were sure that IFF was not called and it should have been. They even seemed to have a grasp of the rule.

It wasn't until I got home later and saw it on Sports Center that I know it was exactly the correct call.

Then I heard the game was being played under protest...exactly what was protested? That's a judgemnt call all the way and not subject to protest.

[azbigdawg]

How is the MLB rule phrased as far as "ordinary effort", if at all?

Huge Braves fan..more pissed about the errors than the call

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I think we, as fellow umpires, should alos be mindful that the crew worked 6 man last when??

Any chance the LFU hesitated wondering if it was his call to make, mechanics wise?

Don't really know if MLB has a specific assignment for that call, but I believe the unique view that umpire had from his position offered a completely different perspective than what is usually available to umpires at any level.

I think the hesitation, assuming there was a hesitation (remember, we are only seeing a hand signal & not privy to any verbal which may have been offered), may be attributed to the umpire waiting on assurance the SS was going to reach the area to catch the ball. I know that isn't what WE are taught, but if you are going to rule an IF at this point, you damn well be sure.

That said, and YES, I am a disappointed Braves fan ....... righteous call.

I read this part a half dozen times and for some reason I kept reading "I am disspointed in the Braves fans".

As the crew chief, I may have wanted to get the crew off the field into the dressing room until everything was cleaned up. Yes, it needed to be discussed, but they certainly were not going to do that on the field, nor should they have.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by azbigdawg

How is the MLB rule phrased as far as "ordinary effort", if at all?

As I remember, MLB invented the IFR and others just copied, so should be the same.

BTW, my belief is the rule should be about proximity to bases (ability to double up runners if not caught); not "ordinary effort" judgements.

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

As I remember, MLB invented the IFR and others just copied, so should be the same.

BTW, my belief is the rule should be about proximity to bases (ability to double up runners if not caught); not "ordinary effort" judgements.

How would you define that and make the rule better? Huge potential for making this rule a whole lot worse if you're not careful.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

....... righteous call.

It was a technically correct call that should not have been made. JMO.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Rule 19 - WHEN BATSMAN IS OUT
Section 8. Infield Fly. If, before two are out, while first and second, or first, second and third bases are occupied, he hits a fair fly ball, other than a line drive, that is handled or, in the opinion of the umpire, would have landed with or near the base lines.

Okay, you think some of ASA's wording is off or vague.