The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Softball (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/)
-   -   obstruction award after dead ball (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/92398-obstruction-award-after-dead-ball.html)

shipwreck Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:46am

obstruction award after dead ball
 
All rule sets that I am aware of state that when an obstructed runner is tagged out before they reach the base that in the umpires judgment they would have reached had there not been obstruction, you call dead ball. My question is in Fed ball where do you place the other runners? I am talking about runners that were not affected by the obstruction. The NCAA rule book is very clear on this. It says if the runners are at least halfway to the next base, you give them that base. There is no mention that these runners need to be affected by the obstruction in order to award this way. Fed rules say I believe, after the ball is called dead, you award the obstructed runner and all other runners affected by the obstruction, the base they would have reached had there not been obstruction. Like I said earlier, what do you use as a guideline for placing runners that were not affected by the obstruction. Rule reference also please.

Dave

MD Longhorn Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by shipwreck (Post 854454)
Fed rules say I believe, after the ball is called dead, you award the obstructed runner and all other runners affected by the obstruction, the base they would have reached had there not been obstruction.

This is the same as ASA, just worded differently. When you killed the play, you "affected" the runners in play. The OBS (indirectly perhaps) affected them by not allowing them to reach whatever base you feel they would have reached. Place them where they would have reached absent the obstruction and subsequent tag and dead ball.

shipwreck Fri Sep 14, 2012 01:04pm

Maybe the wording should be, runners affected by the umpire calling the ball dead, not runners affected by the obstruction.

Dave

Manny A Fri Sep 14, 2012 01:21pm

I never thought there was a real difference in how to treat it amongst the rule sets. The NCAA just gives some clarifying guidance for the umpires to consider.

Of course, that guidance isn't always followed, as NCAA A.R. 9.3.5.1 clearly instructs. If a runner is obstructed as she is returning to a previous base, and a trail runner is on that base, the trail runner has to go back to her previous base unless forced.

BTW, you are incorrect when you say that the NCAA rules do not mention affected runners. 9.3.1 Effect states, "If the obstructed base runner is put out before reaching the base she should have reached had there been no obstruction, a dead ball is called at the time of the apparent put out. The obstructed base runner and each other base runner affected by the obstruction will be awarded the base(s) she/they should have reached had there not been obstruction."

shipwreck Fri Sep 14, 2012 02:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbcrowder (Post 854455)
This is the same as ASA, just worded differently. When you killed the play, you "affected" the runners in play. The OBS (indirectly perhaps) affected them by not allowing them to reach whatever base you feel they would have reached. Place them where they would have reached absent the obstruction and subsequent tag and dead ball.

I still believe it is hard to place other runners where they would have been had their not have been obstruction. Case in point. Runner on 1st. Ball hit to the gap. Runner from first is obstructed at second base and continues home where she is tagged out. Batter runner continues toward third base. We call dead ball when runner at home is tagged out. If there hadn't been obstruction, maybe there isn't a throw home because she was real close to home, so maybe the batter/runner stays at second not risking getting thrown out at third. Where do I place the batter/runner?
Dave

shipwreck Fri Sep 14, 2012 02:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 854485)
I never thought there was a real difference in how to treat it amongst the rule sets. The NCAA just gives some clarifying guidance for the umpires to consider.

Of course, that guidance isn't always followed, as NCAA A.R. 9.3.5.1 clearly instructs. If a runner is obstructed as she is returning to a previous base, and a trail runner is on that base, the trail runner has to go back to her previous base unless forced.

BTW, you are incorrect when you say that the NCAA rules do not mention affected runners. 9.3.1 Effect states, "If the obstructed base runner is put out before reaching the base she should have reached had there been no obstruction, a dead ball is called at the time of the apparent put out. The obstructed base runner and each other base runner affected by the obstruction will be awarded the base(s) she/they should have reached had there not been obstruction."

You are correct. I read too quickly.

MD Longhorn Fri Sep 14, 2012 02:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by shipwreck (Post 854492)
I still believe it is hard to place other runners where they would have been had their not have been obstruction. Case in point. Runner on 1st. Ball hit to the gap. Runner from first is obstructed at second base and continues home where she is tagged out. Batter runner continues toward third base. We call dead ball when runner at home is tagged out. If there hadn't been obstruction, maybe there isn't a throw home because she was real close to home, so maybe the batter/runner stays at second not risking getting thrown out at third. Where do I place the batter/runner?
Dave

Don't give the fielding team any benefit of the doubt here. Don't even think "maybe they don't throw home" - where was the runner when you killed it? Near 2nd? I'd keep them there. Most of the way to 3rd - I'm giving her third.

To me, the tough ones are when the extra runner is before the obstructed runner. R1 on first, BR obstructed rounding 1st on a likely double, but she's thrown out at 2nd. When you call DB, R1 is 3-4 steps past 3rd. If we don't kill it, F4 or F6 have a decent play at R1 at home... where does she go? That's the tough one for me.

Manny A Fri Sep 14, 2012 02:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by shipwreck (Post 854492)
Case in point. Runner on 1st. Ball hit to the gap. Runner from first is obstructed at second base and continues home where she is tagged out. Batter runner continues toward third base. We call dead ball when runner at home is tagged out. If there hadn't been obstruction, maybe there isn't a throw home because she was real close to home, so maybe the batter/runner stays at second not risking getting thrown out at third. Where do I place the batter/runner?

I've got her staying at third base. You really can't penalize the BR because the defense was affected by the obstruction call. They screwed up, not the offense.

tcannizzo Fri Sep 14, 2012 03:27pm

Awarding bases to unobstructed runners adds to the challenge.
What you must do upon you or your partner signaling obstruction is evaluate ALL runners to the baes(s) they would have reached without OBS. I would request a crew meeting to sort it all out with the available eyes on the field before making the awards.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:42pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1