Falling Onto the Fielder...and Not Getting Up

[rwest]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Which is why I dislike the rule. Many, if not most, are not medically trained. I actually find it humorous that all these ailments were divulged after there was a problem.

Unfortunately, in the first couple of years of this I experienced LOADS of coaches and parents start screaming and hollering the moment Lil' Susie said ouch. OTOH, I've also experienced players telling their coaches and parents to shut up and sit down when this started. Like I said, I'm hesitating and waiting until I see something which gives me cause to be concerned.

This can be take to an extreme. However, I do believe the age of the kids involved should be taken into consideration. Besides, by rule, the umpire can call time to see to the kids condition and award the bases he/she felt they would have made, which could be home in this scenario. The offense gets a score out of it and the defense gets to check on their player in a more timely fashion.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by rwest

This can be take to an extreme. However, I do believe the age of the kids involved should be taken into consideration. Besides, by rule, the umpire can call time to see to the kids condition and award the bases he/she felt they would have made, which could be home in this scenario. The offense gets a score out of it and the defense gets to check on their player in a more timely fashion.

And again, I'm not a medical professional and, unfortunately, this is taken to the extreme and there are players who are actually COACHED to do this type of thing. Just where do we draw the line?

As an umpire, I'm not there for the players, I'm there for the game.

RANT

The game has risks, period. If anyone does not want to be exposed to those risks, even 10yo, maybe they should find something else to do. If there is a fragile or sick individual, common sense should tell a parent to not put that child in harm's way, not throw her out there and expect the rest of the world to adjust.

And AGAIN until recently, the game played out for decades and you dealt with the injury later and that was WITHOUT safety bases, cages on helmets, etc. Yes, it's dangerous, but answer me this, who put the players in the situation here? Wasn't any softball organization, it wasn't the umpires, it wasn't the field owners. It IS the parents and coaches. Remember when there were special rules for 10U? Why were they changed? Because the parents wanted Lil' Susie to be competitive and be able to demonstrate their on-field prowess. IOW, they were already chasing the carrot.

A few years ago, there was a proposed code change in ASA to create a national championship for 8U level. Thank God, this was shot down, but after persistence from a certain Western state, ASA gave up and allowed that region to have a 8U championship under the ASA banner. Now we are starting to read about 6U ball. GMAFB!

This is real simple. You want a REC game to be called as a REC game, use rules that give you the environment desired. However, if you want to play with Championship Play rules, that is how the game should be officiated. I'm a firm believer that an umpire should give the 10U game the same effort, respect and professionalism as a 18U G game. And remember, the same coaches and parents who want to crucify the umpire for not stopping the game soon enough will be screaming about the 1/4 inch the 10yo foot is off the PP or how the 10yo lost contact with the base when switching feet and demand a LBR violation. However, the teams and leagues cannot have it both ways, either you get a professional umpire or a REC umpire.

JMHO

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by rwest

All I am saying is take the age of the kids into account. Would you call time if this same thing happened in a pee-wee game or T-Ball?

Well, I personally wouldn't umpire a T-Ball game. Heaven help those leagues that feel they need umpires for their T-Ball programs!

I fully understand my role out there when it comes to player injuries during a live ball. And I judged that there was nothing wrong with F4 which, as it turned out, was correct.

Also, while this was a rec league game, the two teams involved are very competitive that I've seen quite often in weekend ASA tournaments. They use this league as tune-ups for their tournament participation. The game, in toto, was better played than many high school JV games I've umpired.

But that's really not the reason why I posted this. I wanted to get an answer purely from a rules' perspective, and I got that.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by nopachunts

Emphasis mine. What was the BR doing? Was the BR making an effort to get off of F3? If the BR is taking her sweet time to get off of F3, I'm calling time and keeping R1 at 2B. If the BR got off of F3 and F3 continues to lay there crying, R1 can continue until no further play can be made.

Nope - unless BR interferes, you've got nothing, and for BR to interfere, the fielder has to be trying to make a play.

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Situation: I'm flying solo on a 10U rec game. R1 on first. Batter bunts down the first base line. F3 comes in and fields the ball, then throws to F4 covering first. The throw takes F4 into the BR's path. She makes the catch to retire the BR, and then there's a crash between the BR and F4. F4 goes down and the BR lands on top of her.

F4 makes absolutely no effort to get up, despite the fact that R1, now on second base, takes off for third. She lies there crying while the retired BR stays on her. The collision was very minor from my perspective, so I don't call Time. R1 makes it to third, and there is still no effort on F4's part to try to get up. The defensive team's coaches are yelling for Time from the first base dugout.

There's no rule set listed for this play, so I'll suggest this using ASA (since I've recently looked up the rule):

If F4 held the ball long enough for the BR to avoid a collision, might ASA 8-7-Q Apply?

When a defensive player has the ball and the runner remains upright and crashes into the defensive player.

EFFECT: The ball is dead. The runner is out. All runners must return to the last base touched. If the act is determined to be flagrant, the offender shall be ejected.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

There's no rule set listed for this play, so I'll suggest this using ASA (since I've recently looked up the rule):

If F4 held the ball long enough for the BR to avoid a collision, might ASA 8-7-Q Apply?

No, RS13 states this is not a crash.

[Stat-Man]

Thanks, Irish.