Calling the obvious out

[Tru_in_Blu]

I searched but didn't find definitive answers.

I work ASA/NFHS and have a question on the requirement on calls for the pop up in the infield that is caught or a runner thrown out at 1B by 20 feet.

If it's "obvious" to everyone in the park, I usually signal w/ the hammer, hold it for 3-4 seconds and say nothing.

We have a guy new to our association [ASA] whose signal is a closed fist given with a little flip of the elbow/wrist down at belt level.

When I asked him about it, he said:

"In HS/College we are encouraged to NOT call obvious outs--the kind that everyone in the park understands is an out. Just a sign and no verbal is the standard. It fall under the current trend to not embarass or show-up a kid when the play can stand for itself."

Well, he's now working church league ball, not college or even HS. However, I still think the proper mechanic should be given, even if no verbal is made.

Comments?

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

I work ASA/NFHS and have a question on the requirement on calls for the pop up in the infield that is caught or a runner thrown out at 1B by 20 feet.

If it's "obvious" to everyone in the park, I usually signal w/ the hammer, hold it for 3-4 seconds and say nothing.

I do what you do.

[MD Longhorn]

I do what you do, although not as long (maybe 1 or 1 1/2 seconds tops). However, I HAVE heard his comments made in a clinic before. I make a minimalist signal because if you do absolutely nothing, there may be someone who thinks you're not making a call because the obvious out is not an out after all (for whatever reason). I don't like his "signal" as it's not necessarily obvious what he's calling. I'd rather see nothing than a signal that is not known by all.

[Andy]

I'm about the same as Mike.

On a routine play at first, I will wait until the runner passes the bag or gives up running to signal the out. I was taught this when I first started to help with timing and make myself wait to make the call. I still have the habit.

So why do we signal the obvious outs, but not the obvious safes?

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by Andy

I'm about the same as Mike.

On a routine play at first, I will wait until the runner passes the bag or gives up running to signal the out. I was taught this when I first started to help with timing and make myself wait to make the call. I still have the habit.

So why do we signal the obvious outs, but not the obvious safes?

We don't signal the obvious safes?
I was taught that every play deserves a call.

Now if there isn't a play you don't need a safe call.

[Dakota]

On the routine, obvious to everyone, out (such as out by several steps at 1B), I'll wait a few and then just give a casual hammer.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

On the routine, obvious to everyone, out (such as out by several steps at 1B), I'll wait a few and then just give a casual hammer.

As do I and as a matter of routine I will also verbalize the "out", but I doubt anyone more than 5' away can hear it

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Dakota

On the routine, obvious to everyone, out (such as out by several steps at 1B), I'll wait a few and then just give a casual hammer.

What about a "casual" safe on an obvious safe, like a runner there 2 secs before the ball and no tag attempt?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

We have a guy new to our association [ASA] whose signal is a closed fist given with a little flip of the elbow/wrist down at belt level.

When I asked him about it, he said:

"In HS/College we are encouraged to NOT call obvious outs--the kind that everyone in the park understands is an out. Just a sign and no verbal is the standard. It fall under the current trend to not embarass or show-up a kid when the play can stand for itself."

Well, he's now working church league ball, not college or even HS. However, I still think the proper mechanic should be given, even if no verbal is made.

Comments?

Betting he does baseball. Where the "short hammer" is often used for obvious outs.

The only signals given in softball at belt level or inside the body are those defined as umpire-to-umpire. Any signal given that signifies a strike or an out is intended to be given above shoulder height.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by Andy

So why do we signal the obvious outs, but not the obvious safes?

Because every runner is safe, until they are out. If it isn't close and everyone knows the runner is not out, why tell them?

On the obvious out, their status has changed. That deserves a call.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

What about a "casual" safe on an obvious safe, like a runner there 2 secs before the ball and no tag attempt?

No, because there was no play made to call, or, as MNBlue says, the runner's status has not changed. Why not signal "safe" every time a runner touches the bag?

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by Dakota

No, because there was no play made to call, or, as MNBlue says, the runner's status has not changed. Why not signal "safe" every time a runner touches the bag?

Or point to home plate everytime a run scores..

[CecilOne]

Good points, all 3 of you.
My example was extreme to avoid any HTBT replies.
What about same basic play when fielder receives ball just after runner reaches, then holds tag to see if runner will slip off?
HTBT not accepted.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Good points, all 3 of you.
My example was extreme to avoid any HTBT replies.
What about same basic play when fielder receives ball just after runner reaches, then holds tag to see if runner will slip off?
HTBT not accepted.

Casual safe, since there seems to be some doubt as to the runner's status. Call time if all play is stopped and the fielder isn't taking the tag off and the runner isn't moving.

[MD Longhorn]

I guess the easiest way would be to say that if I think there's ANY reason that ANYONE might need to know the runner is still safe, or that anyone might be unclear, I'll signal the slow safe sign. Fielder holding the tag on a safe runner on a bag for no reason is a perfect example.