Notre Dame, UA interference call

[ronald]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Bottom of 4th inning, anyone catch the play? R1, batter hits line drive in direction of F4. R1 has to hold for possible fly out, F4 short hops ball and throws to F6 at 2nd for force. R1 now heading to 2nd, F6 makes throw to 1st into runner who is directly in baseline. Umpires rule interference on retired runner, call BR out. As has been discussed on many posts, runner cannot simply dissappear from the field after being retired.

what does the NCAA rule book and interpretations say on this?

Above, it says umpires ruled interference. I find it hard to believe that 3 of the yahoos got together and came up with the incorrect ruling. I could be wrong. But god helps us if that is true.

We expect the batter to figure out where a loose ball is so she or he does not get plucked by a throw from the catcher (i believe we have said that is interference). And now the runner can see she is out by 30 feet and can not do something to get out of the way of the incoming missle. That does not add up to me.

Explanations, please and thank you. Why you guys are helping out I will ask one of my UIC's.

[RKBUmp]

Recording 201252274241 - YouTube

Perhaps watching the video will explain it. She did in fact check up, and when she realized the ball was going to hit her she did try to get out of the way. F6 simply drilled her, she had no chance.

[PSUchem]

It seems there are always 2 camps of officials with differing calls for the runner who gets beaned by the throw while traveling from 1B to 2B. Those who state that the runner must not interfere with the play no matter what, and those who state that as long as the runner is doing what they are "supposed to" and do not perform an "act" to cause interference, there is no interference.

Camp #1 would call the a play like this interference; camp #2 would not.

HOWEVER, regardless of which camp you live in, IMHO there was no way that on this play either camp should have an interference call. There is no way that the throw would have beaten the BR to 1B. The BR was on or 1/2 step away from 1B when the throw was released. The runner could not have possibly interfered with the play, which we define as an opportunity to record an out.

Now, did the umpire have the wherewithal to think to him/herself "Hmmm, would the BR have been safe anyway?"... probably not.

Edit: Dakota beat me to it.

[ronald]

Originally Posted by PSUchem

It seems there are always 2 camps of officials with differing calls for the runner who gets beaned by the throw while traveling from 1B to 2B. Those who state that the runner must not interfere with the play no matter what, and those who state that as long as the runner is doing what they are "supposed to" and do not perform an "act" to cause interference, there is no interference.

Camp #1 would call the a play like this interference; camp #2 would not.

HOWEVER, regardless of which camp you live in, IMHO there was no way that on this play either camp should have an interference call. There is no way that the throw would have beaten the BR to 1B. The BR was on or 1/2 step away from 1B when the throw was released. The runner could not have possibly interfered with the play, which we define as an opportunity to record an out.

Now, did the umpire have the wherewithal to think to him/herself "Hmmm, would the BR have been safe anyway?"... probably not.

Edit: Dakota beat me to it.

+1.

So, by conjecture, what the heck happened to get to let's call the br out? I do not understand how where was the br could not have come up in the conversation. A process to come up with the correct call is not occurring IMO and this is discouraging and upsetting.

Since we have all seen this video, we should develop if we have not already done so, what to do on a play like this. Somebody has to know and have a system to determine where the runner or runners are when a dead ball call goes up and out. I think this play illustrates that talking about it in meetings is not getting it done. This is something that needs to be practiced on the field and drilled. Mike you now have a new drill for out next
Central Atlantic Clinic. What do think?

Umps have complained about lackluster clinics. We now have a great source to get live material that we can get into our training. The videos are priceless and it is what other sports do to improve their officials.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by ronald

+1.

A process to come up with the correct call is not occurring imo and this is discouraging and upsetting.

We now have a great source to get live material that we can get into our training. The videos are priceless and it is what other sports do to improve their officials.

+1

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by PSUchem

It seems there are always 2 camps of officials with differing calls for the runner who gets beaned by the throw while traveling from 1B to 2B. Those who state that the runner must not interfere with the play no matter what, and those who state that as long as the runner is doing what they are "supposed to" and do not perform an "act" to cause interference, there is no interference.

Camp #1 would call the a play like this interference; camp #2 would not.

Where did you find that that #1 camp, Hess Field?

Who wants to call her out? Pretty sure the consensus was that the ruling was wrong.

HOWEVER, regardless of which camp you live in, IMHO there was no way that on this play either camp should have an interference call. There is no way that the throw would have beaten the BR to 1B. The BR was on or 1/2 step away from 1B when the throw was released. The runner could not have possibly interfered with the play, which we define as an opportunity to record an out.

Now, did the umpire have the wherewithal to think to him/herself "Hmmm, would the BR have been safe anyway?"... probably not.

Hell, all three of the umpires didn't have the wherewithal to come up with that.

[PSUchem]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Who wants to call her out? Pretty sure the consensus was that the ruling was wrong.

Yes, for this play most everyone here agrees the call was wrong. I was referring to the general situation of a double play situation, where the runner is struck with a throw while advancing to 2B. Usually this runner is far closer to 2B, and in those situations the interference/no interference rulings seem to be 50/50 (camp #1 v. camp #2) based on the reasoning I stated. Of course, we all know to which camp you belong, Irish.

And with those dumb rounded backstops they just put in at Hess, we might as well put a tarp over them, make camp, and start a campfire.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by PSUchem

Yes, for this play most everyone here agrees the call was wrong. I was referring to the general situation of a double play situation, where the runner is struck with a throw while advancing to 2B. Usually this runner is far closer to 2B, and in those situations the interference/no interference rulings seem to be 50/50 (camp #1 v. camp #2) based on the reasoning I stated. Of course, we all know to which camp you belong, Irish.

I don't think there are that many umpires in the "call the INT" camp as you think. Now, players and coaches, that's a different story.

And with those dumb rounded backstops they just put in at Hess, we might as well put a tarp over them, make camp, and start a campfire.

Hate those clam-shell backstops. All they do is endanger the umpire, catcher and batter all for the sake of not having to chase a ball into the fields.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Hell, all three of the umpires didn't have the wherewithal to come up with that.

Devil's advocate, this part only. Let's forget or ignore for the moment that we all disagree with the result.

When the umpire crew gets together and discusses a judgment call, who here thinks the majority rules? Even if/when the majority is correct??

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the calling umpire's call unless he/she accepts the "additional missing piece"??

For all we know, two people were saying "Really?", and totally disagreeing for all the reasons we have been stating, yet failed to provide enough information to convince the calling umpire he erred. Absent that, what other outcome should we expect?

Or am I missing something?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Devil's advocate, this part only. Let's forget or ignore for the moment that we all disagree with the result.

When the umpire crew gets together and discusses a judgment call, who here thinks the majority rules? Even if/when the majority is correct??

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the calling umpire's call unless he/she accepts the "additional missing piece"??

For all we know, two people were saying "Really?", and totally disagreeing for all the reasons we have been stating, yet failed to provide enough information to convince the calling umpire he erred. Absent that, what other outcome should we expect?

Or am I missing something?

You are absolutely correct, that is an assumption that can be made.

OTOH, I hope this conference was about more than just "additional missing piece" of information. I would like to think that, especially at this point of competition, the three actually reviewed the play and the rule. I don't think judgment comes into play here as there isn't much question that the runner was ruled out simply because she was hit by a thrown ball. There certainly wasn't any "act" of interference.

The only possible "additional missing piece" I can think of would be the point that there was no play @ 1B. That would have made for an easy resolution that would most likely have alleviated the call and the crew from major scrutiny.

It would also be nice to know how the ND coach approached the umpires and how the call was questioned. This could have been a case of someone with a separate view just not walking the crew through the play with commentary. Could have there been a fixation on an INT call that prevented them from considering the possibilty there was no play with which to interfere?

And just for ****s and giggles, wouldn't you love to know what was going through Candrea's mind at the time?

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Devil's advocate, this part only. Let's forget or ignore for the moment that we all disagree with the result.

When the umpire crew gets together and discusses a judgment call, who here thinks the majority rules? Even if/when the majority is correct??

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the calling umpire's call unless he/she accepts the "additional missing piece"??

For all we know, two people were saying "Really?", and totally disagreeing for all the reasons we have been stating, yet failed to provide enough information to convince the calling umpire he erred. Absent that, what other outcome should we expect?

Or am I missing something?

No your not missing anything.
In going back and looking at the replay, (yet again), after reading your post; stopping it at the :13, :14,& :15 sec. marks, you can see the crew all where they should at that point in the play.

PU is looking down the line to first and the BR.
U1 is at a 90 to 1st in foul ground looking toward 2nd and at R1.
U3 is on the outside of 2nd having just called the force out on R1 and watching the throw from F6 to F3.
then.......
U3, after making the INF call walks toward the first baseline and his partners where the conference.

Was he going there on his own to ask for a piece of information he was missing?
Was he beckoned by the PU or U1 who had a piece of information on the location of the BR?

While U3 can be faulted for not recognizing the location of the BR at the time he made the INF call, U1 (and PU trailing) had the responsibility for the BR.
Did they (B1&PU) just get caught up in watching the throw hit the runner and the fact that the BR had already touched 1st just escape them and never entered into the conversation when the conferenced?

[GoRedSox]

I at first thought the ruling on the field was wrong, so I looked up the NCAA rule and according to rule12.19.5 the call was right. "A base runner, after being declared out or after scoring, may not interfere with a defensive player's opportunity to make a play on another base runner."

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Where did you find that that #1 camp, Hess Field?

I think there are a lot of great lessons learned at Hess field.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

I think there are a lot of great lessons learned at Hess field.

Know a couple guys who learned the fine art of cow tipping at an umpire's tournament held there years ago

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Know a couple guys who learned the fine art of cow tipping at an umpire's tournament held there years ago

Cow tippin' isn't that much of an art . . is it all science. "Fine art(s)" are located a few miles west of Hess.