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Old Wed May 09, 2012, 03:22pm
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Time Limit Games JO fast pitch

When the official time ends in a game, how do you determine a played inning?

Ex: Say your in the bottom of the 6th and have two outs. The batter hits the ball, but the official time expired right before the pitch. As an umpire, should you have stopped the game in the 5th due to lack of time or if the batter gets out you end the game?
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Old Wed May 09, 2012, 03:36pm
JEL JEL is offline
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Originally Posted by nsc_wa View Post
When the official time ends in a game, how do you determine a played inning?

Ex: Say your in the bottom of the 6th and have two outs. The batter hits the ball, but the official time expired right before the pitch. As an umpire, should you have stopped the game in the 5th due to lack of time or if the batter gets out you end the game?
Most time limits are "finish the inning" meaning when the clock hits zero, you finish that inning. Note also that an inning starts as soon as the last out of the previous inning is made.

Some tournies use a "drop dead" limit, some may use a finish the batter.

You will find that time limits can become a giant pain in the butt! but (especially in "wreck" ball) they are a blessing!
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Old Wed May 09, 2012, 04:13pm
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Originally Posted by nsc_wa View Post
When the official time ends in a game, how do you determine a played inning?

Ex: Say your in the bottom of the 6th and have two outs. The batter hits the ball, but the official time expired right before the pitch. As an umpire, should you have stopped the game in the 5th due to lack of time or if the batter gets out you end the game?
99% of the time, the time limit really means, "Do not start any new inning after X minutes". Once you've started the inning, you finish the inning. One exception to that is that if you are over the time limit, and the winning team is already determined, you're done. I do not mean that it is very probable that one team or the other will win ... I mean determined. Example: Home is up and leading when time expires... you're done. Example: Visitor is up by 6 or more, and your league has a 5 run per inning rule - you're done (regardless of who is batting). Example: Your league has no run rule. Home is up by 24, visitor is up with 2 outs and no one on... you're NOT done - finish the top of the inning.

That said, you will run across individual areas that handle it differently or use curfews, and you will run across pre-tourney pool games that have drop dead time limits of the "finish the batter" variety or of the "last pitch" variety - I've never worked either of those where the score mattered - they are glorified scrimmages. In those cases, you should know the local rules in advance, and coaches should be apprised of them at the plate meeting.
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Old Wed May 09, 2012, 04:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nsc_wa View Post
When the official time ends in a game, how do you determine a played inning?

Ex: Say your in the bottom of the 6th and have two outs. The batter hits the ball, but the official time expired right before the pitch. As an umpire, should you have stopped the game in the 5th due to lack of time or if the batter gets out you end the game?
If you are looking at the ASA rule book, the time limits it is describing apply to ASA Championship Play (that is, Nationals, etc.). In that context, you will always finish the inning during which time expired ("finish the inning" means the same as finishing the 7th inning... that is, if home is ahead any time with time expired after the top of the inning, the inning is finished).

If you are not talking about Championship Play, then the rules about time limits can be all over the map, as others have said, and you need to ask. Even so, the vast majority of the time it will be done the same as above (finish the inning), except the time will be shorter than the rule book says.
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Old Mon May 14, 2012, 12:29am
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The thing about time limit rules, even the National Championship one for ASA does not specify for the most part any events that effect the time limit.

The ASA rule is "time starts with the first pitch". Does that include a warm up pitch? I usually start my clock with the first warm up pitch and put my clock away. After all, the clock runs for the warm up pitches in the bottom of the first why not the top?

Do you stop the clock for any injury or just ones that last awhile? How long is awhile? Obviously if we are waiting for an ambulance we need to stop the clock (but there is nothing written to support this), but maybe not for a hit by pitch where the girl runs down the line a few times then is ok to go. I usually pull out my clock when something happens so I know where to restart from if it turns out to be clock stop worthy.

Does the time to sort out a scorebook issue or a BOO issue come off the clock? I usually apply the same method as above.. check the time then if I feel the break was clock stop worthy I will rest my timer to that time.

But all of these are just me trying to do what seems fair and correct and within the intent of the rules as far as I can determine without anything written to guide me.
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Old Mon May 14, 2012, 06:20am
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Last season in York, PA. I was at the Eastern National JO 12U-B Fast pitch Championships. Thu UIC stated that we had an official timer/book keeper at every game that started 1:40, first pitch. And the top of the next inning started when the last out of the last inning ended. I had top 7 with 50 seconds and had to finish the inning. No stopage time for anything.
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Old Mon May 14, 2012, 06:34am
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Originally Posted by xtreamump View Post
Last season in York, PA. I was at the Eastern National JO 12U-B Fast pitch Championships. Thu UIC stated that we had an official timer/book keeper at every game that started 1:40, first pitch. And the top of the next inning started when the last out of the last inning ended. I had top 7 with 50 seconds and had to finish the inning. No stopage time for anything.
And that is how it is stated in the rule book. The first pitch is the first pitch, that's pretty plain and straight forward (5.10). And the definition covers the start of a new inning as you describe.

I think the "no stopage" note shouldn't be locked in. A few years ago, had a player break a leg on a play. Don't think the teams would have been very happy if we let the clock continue during the time it took to attend to the player and for the ambulance to arrive and then exit the field.
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Old Mon May 14, 2012, 12:32pm
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Originally Posted by UmpireErnie View Post
The thing about time limit rules, even the National Championship one for ASA does not specify for the most part any events that effect the time limit.

The ASA rule is "time starts with the first pitch". Does that include a warm up pitch? I usually start my clock with the first warm up pitch and put my clock away. After all, the clock runs for the warm up pitches in the bottom of the first why not the top?

Do you stop the clock for any injury or just ones that last awhile? How long is awhile? Obviously if we are waiting for an ambulance we need to stop the clock (but there is nothing written to support this), but maybe not for a hit by pitch where the girl runs down the line a few times then is ok to go. I usually pull out my clock when something happens so I know where to restart from if it turns out to be clock stop worthy.

Does the time to sort out a scorebook issue or a BOO issue come off the clock? I usually apply the same method as above.. check the time then if I feel the break was clock stop worthy I will rest my timer to that time.

But all of these are just me trying to do what seems fair and correct and within the intent of the rules as far as I can determine without anything written to guide me.
Injuries, I agree in principle. Anything requiring outside help (trainer, etc.) is not game time. Everyone asking Suzie if she is OK ad infinitum is game time.

Disagree regarding scoring or BOO issues. As well as coaches wanting to "discuss" plays, and whatever time is necessary to complete resolution. They made it part of the game; it is part of the game, so part of the game time.

In Championship Play, first pitch is the first game pitch. In other tournaments, first warm up pitch is generally accepted.

In league ball, when we break up the conference or say "home team, take the field". Any delay after that is their problem.
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Old Mon May 14, 2012, 02:53pm
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Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
Everyone asking Suzie if she is OK ad infinitum is game time.
If I am in Suzie's vicinity while the third or fourth person is asking her if she is OK I'll usually follow up with "Suzie? Should we get a few more people to ask you if your OK?" This usually gets a few laughs and generally everyone gets the idea that it's time to play ball again.
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Old Mon May 14, 2012, 03:02pm
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Here in Anchorage we have one additional time limit rule for high school games that is just IMO wacked!!

If there is school the next morning then you cannot start a new inning after 930pm... no matter how short that makes the game.

We usually have two and sometimes three games per night starting at 400p, and have a no-new-inning time limit of 90 minutes. But if the first couple of games go long i.e. tied games going extra innings or a game with no decent pitching where the time expires just as the visitors are coming to bat so you have to get thru six very slow outs to finish the game.. the last game is usually scheduled to start at 745pm but if the field is running behind it might start after 800pm which means those teams are not getting a full 90 minutes.

I guarantee that a high school basketball game that goes into multiple overtimes will not be stopped just because it's 930pm. Weird.
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Old Mon May 14, 2012, 04:47pm
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Originally Posted by UmpireErnie View Post
Here in Anchorage we have one additional time limit rule for high school games that is just IMO wacked!!

If there is school the next morning then you cannot start a new inning after 930pm... no matter how short that makes the game.

We usually have two and sometimes three games per night starting at 400p, and have a no-new-inning time limit of 90 minutes. But if the first couple of games go long i.e. tied games going extra innings or a game with no decent pitching where the time expires just as the visitors are coming to bat so you have to get thru six very slow outs to finish the game.. the last game is usually scheduled to start at 745pm but if the field is running behind it might start after 800pm which means those teams are not getting a full 90 minutes.

I guarantee that a high school basketball game that goes into multiple overtimes will not be stopped just because it's 930pm. Weird.
You've got lights, right?

That IS a joke, folks.
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Old Mon May 14, 2012, 08:08pm
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xtreamump

I think the "no stopage" note shouldn't be locked in.

I know that it is not in the BOOK but I use common sence in a broken leg sitch, and I can deal with the are you OK Lucy all by myself. I am begining to think that I know what a Clone is................
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Old Tue May 15, 2012, 07:41am
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Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
You've got lights, right?
Aren't they called Northern Lights; and it doesn't get dark in Alaska at certain times of the year, right?
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Old Wed May 16, 2012, 11:21pm
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Old Wed May 16, 2012, 11:27pm
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Aren't they called Northern Lights; and it doesn't get dark in Alaska at certain times of the year, right?
Right now official sundown is about 1030pm.. we don't have lights on a single softball field in the state. Only once have I had to suspend a game due to darkness.. was a slowpitch tournament in the fall when it is getting dark a bit earlier and it was overcast which didn't help. Bottom of last inning due to time limit and visitors up by a big number. Home starts hitting the ball. And hitting.. and hitting.. and we have two outs but they just won't quit.. started inning down by 20ish but have now pulled to within 5 and it is evident the infielders are beginning to have a hard time seeing the ball in the dusk. I suspend the game.

It was a loser out game..and just one out left. The tournament director scheduled it to resume 30 mins before the first scheduled game on Sunday morning. The home team failed to show up! I guess they decided it wasn't worth getting up early for a game that could have ended with just one pitch.
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