How would you handle?

[rngrck]

U2 calls illegal pitch by signaling delayed dead ball. B1 hits pitch for a single, runner goes from1st to third. I, Partner says nothing and I as U1 incorrectly interpret the rule and disallow B1's hit and award a ball and put runner at 2nd. Coach argues I don't change my call. I go to my partner after inning, he tells me He didn't want to say anything since I already made my call. I say, if you knew I was wrong, why didn't you get with me and make the call correct. He says, " A good umpire would never rule against his partner". I eventually apologized to the coach and everything was cool.

[DUNDALKCHOPPER]

Not much of an Umpire if he allowed a mistake to go uncorrected. We see this often in MLB and it drives me crazy.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by rngrck

U2 calls illegal pitch by signaling delayed dead ball. B1 hits pitch for a single, runner goes from1st to third. I, Partner says nothing and I as U1 incorrectly interpret the rule and disallow B1's hit and award a ball and put runner at 2nd. Coach argues I don't change my call. I go to my partner after inning, he tells me He didn't want to say anything since I already made my call. I say, if you knew I was wrong, why didn't you get with me and make the call correct. He says, " A good umpire would never rule against his partner". I eventually apologized to the coach and everything was cool.

Where's the PU in all of this? Unless you are using unfamiliar designations, which I suspect you are.

I will take this as U1-PU; U2-BU. B should be at least "2" with a runner one, but that part is self-explanatory.

Your partner is correct, he has no authority to even seek to overturn your call. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean he shouldn't try to get your attention to discuss the play and improper ruling. At that point, your partner can provide you with more, possibly better, information to allow you to correct the ruling.

[EsqUmp]

This is an improper rule interpretation/application. The plate umpire has the duty to talk about the rule with the base umpire. If they can't agree, then, dare I say it, get a rule book out and get it right.

[rj]

I've been taught the most important thing is to get it right. The players should not be penalized for an umpire not knowing the rules, especially if his/her partner(s) knows the decision is wrong. Another thing I've been taught, NEVER bring a rule book onto the field (coach or umpire). If you're not sure, look it up during your post-game with your partner.

[Dutch Alex]

A good umpire would, if unsure about the ruling, always ask his partner.
If the both of you are not sure, then do what you think is most fair!
The coaches of both teams have the right to protest, if they think you're wrong in your ruling. At that point, don't worry! Others are in charge. They will then with the rule-book in the hand look it up and make the correct call. So you might play it over from a certain point in the game or the complete game. But things can be corrected, afterwards.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by DUNDALKCHOPPER

Not much of an Umpire if he allowed a mistake to go uncorrected. We see this often in MLB and it drives me crazy.

Actually, he is not much of an umpire if he just charges in to the rescue, either.

Originally Posted by rj

I've been taught the most important thing is to get it right. The players should not be penalized for an umpire not knowing the rules, especially if his/her partner(s) knows the decision is wrong. Another thing I've been taught, NEVER bring a rule book onto the field (coach or umpire). If you're not sure, look it up during your post-game with your partner.

If that is the "most important thing", there is still a process that must be followed.

Any umpire manual I've ever read has been very clear... you do not overrule your partner's call. As Mike said, you can try to get his attention, but you don't go charging in to the rescue without being asked by your partner.

Whenever this topic comes up, many of us seem to ignore the role the coach has to play in this. The coach should know what I said above... one umpire cannot overrule another... and he should know the process to follow to get the other umpire involved. If the coach is convinced the umpire is incorrect in rule application, the coach should protest the ruling. This should result in an umpire conference, where the correct ruling will hopefully be arrived at. Note that this "on field" protest is always available, even when protests to the league, association, commissioner, etc., are not allowed.

The coach, knowing the ruling was wrong, should have done his part, too, to ensure a proper ruling.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Dakota

If that is the "most important thing", there is still a process that must be followed.

Any umpire manual I've ever read has been very clear... you do not overrule your partner's call. As Mike said, you can try to get his attention, but you don't go charging in to the rescue without being asked by your partner.

Yes, but this same rulebook tells us to correct a RULES mistake. This is not a "call" - this is a misapplication of a rule. Fix it.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Actually, he is not much of an umpire if he just charges in to the rescue, either.

Any umpire manual I've ever read has been very clear... you do not overrule your partner's call. As Mike said, you can try to get his attention, but you don't go charging in to the rescue without being asked by your partner.

I've always understood the call to be Illegal Pitch. The rest of it isn't a call but an enforcement of a rule. And (perhaps mistakenly), if in this situation, I'd want to get with my partner to understand what he was doing. Or conversely, if there was an award to be made, I've never seen a responsibility chart for making the award.
For example, runner on 1st, ball is hit fair and then bounces out of play. PU calls it dead. Runner stops at second. As BU, I'd send her to third because I was there even though the dead ball was the PU's call. Is that wrong?

[marvin]

Originally Posted by rngrck

U2 calls illegal pitch by signaling delayed dead ball. B1 hits pitch for a single, runner goes from1st to third. I, Partner says nothing and I as U1 incorrectly interpret the rule and disallow B1's hit and award a ball and put runner at 2nd. Coach argues I don't change my call. I go to my partner after inning, he tells me He didn't want to say anything since I already made my call. I say, if you knew I was wrong, why didn't you get with me and make the call correct. He says, " A good umpire would never rule against his partner". I eventually apologized to the coach and everything was cool.

Am I reading this wrong? If U2 (base umpire?) made the original IP call isn't he/she already involved. Doesn't this call "belong" to U2?

For those that suggest a protest - in some states for HS ball protests are not allowed. You don;t have anyone backstopping you so you have to get it right on the field.

If you see a rule being improperly applied you don't have to "charge in". You can calmly speak to your partner away from the coaches and then let the umpire who made the initial ruling make the final ruling.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by rngrck

U2 calls illegal pitch.

I don't think Bono or the Edge know the rules well enough to make this call with authority.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Most are missing the point. Yes, it was the wrong award and here we have a bunch of umpires who are up in arms about getting the call right without a concern of how to go about it.

Whether you like it or not, there is a protocol and the manner in which the event unfolds affects the entire crew, not just the umpire who made the error.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Most are missing the point. Yes, it was the wrong award and here we have a bunch of umpires who are up in arms about getting the call right without a concern of how to go about it.

Whether you like it or not, there is a protocol and the manner in which the event unfolds affects the entire crew, not just the umpire who made the error.

Please fill us in on that protocol.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by marvin

...For those that suggest a protest - in some states for HS ball protests are not allowed. You don;t have anyone backstopping you so you have to get it right on the field.

The on-field protest is always available, unless you are talking about 1 umpire.

Originally Posted by marvin

...If you see a rule being improperly applied you don't have to "charge in". You can calmly speak to your partner away from the coaches and then let the umpire who made the initial ruling make the final ruling.

Since the two umpires generally speaking have no reason to get together, how exactly do you suggest this be done? This question applies to you, too, Mike. (mbcrowder). As Mike (Irish) says, there is a protocol to be followed, and the coach should know that. It is within his control to get the umpires together.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Since the two umpires generally speaking have no reason to get together, how exactly do you suggest this be done? This question applies to you, too, Mike. (mbcrowder)

I think the main problem to me is PU making the awards - I don't believe that would happen on most fields, but say BU makes the awards and does it incorrectly. I see nothing wrong with PU calling time and the umpires getting together. I don't believe anyone in my association would have a problem with this either. I'm not advocating getting together to try to change a judgement call no matter how egregious. A rule misinterpretation should be fixed if possible. No coach intervention necessary.

Had the following happen a week or so ago, not on my field. Runners on 2nd and 3rd, ball hit to pitcher, who throws home to F2 (not sure of the ages, but it was a younger kid game). F2 catches it, touches the plate ahead of the runner. PU calls runner out. Coach goes ballistic, yells at PU for a while (probably should have been tossed, but I don't think anyone is surprised that a PU who messed up a simple Force rule also didn't know when to eject), and leaves. BU, who was NOT a rookie, did nothing other than keeping the assistant coach away from the conversation.

At our group post-game, our UIC admonished BU pretty strongly for not approaching PU to see if this was just a REALLY bad judgement call, or a rules misinterpretation - and when learning it was a rules mistake, fixing it.