How would you handle?

[Rufus]

Baseball coach/basketball ref here again with a game management question. During all pre-game meetings the umpires discuss not disputing judgment calls. My question is how you would handle coaches who don't openly question ball/strikes, but instead nibble on the edges with loud (i.e., easy to hear across the field) comments like:

• Supposedly yelled to catcher "Timmy, where was that?"
• Said to no one in particular "Oooh, that looked really good!"

You get the idea. I know how I would handle as a basketball official but was wondering how you would typically address those kinds of comments (if at all).

[jicecone]

Just smile.

It really doesn't matter what they say and when. Just like I decide whether it is a ball or strike, I also decide how long they can stay at the game and when they can be asked to leave.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Rufus

You get the idea. I know how I would handle as a basketball official but was wondering how you would typically address those kinds of comments (if at all).

One standard approach:

1. Ignore the first (few) comments.

2. Look: if it starts to become a problem, give a long look into the dugout.

3. Warn: if the look doesn't register, at the next comment call time and tell the coach that's enough. (And don't be fooled by, "I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to my catcher/pitcher/players" etc.)

4. Eject: if it's still not working, toss him (or restrict him to the dugout).

It's a bit different in basketball, where the coaches are right on top of us.

[Rufus]

Thanks for the quick replies.

jicecone - I agree. I'm usually too busy on the court to pay (much) attention to the sometimes inane comments coming from the bench. At the same time I realize that the baseball field is a much quieter environment and folks can hear everything that's said. Just wasn't sure the actual steps you would take up to instructing them to leave the field/park.

Mbyron - I've found that having the ability to assess technicals also helps in these situations in basketball (i.e., one more tool in to use). It all depends on the circumstance, of course, but I'll usually try and talk a coach down first in basketball but, if he earns it, call a technical. That usually shuts them up. It's interesting how you almost have to be more tolerant in baseball for the same kind of behavior. I wonder if that's because there isn't a "T" equivalent?

Would you ever picture a scenario where, instead of progressing through the steps you outline, you simply tell the coach after the first utterance "Coach, we're not discussing/listening to comments on judgment calls" then toss him/her if they did it again?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Baseball coach/basketball ref here again with a game management question. During all pre-game meetings the umpires discuss not disputing judgment calls. My question is how you would handle coaches who don't openly question ball/strikes, but instead nibble on the edges with loud (i.e., easy to hear across the field) comments like:

• Supposedly yelled to catcher "Timmy, where was that?"
• Said to no one in particular "Oooh, that looked really good!"

You get the idea. I know how I would handle as a basketball official but was wondering how you would typically address those kinds of comments (if at all).

Ignore both, and expect to hear these in every single game of your life. If you have a good catcher, Timmy will tell coach where it was and not say something stupid. On the 2nd, let them encourage their pitchers all they want. Why would it bother you that a pitch 3 inches outside looked "really good" from the crappiest place to call strikes in the whole park (i.e. near the dugouts). Of course it looks good from there.

[shickenbottom]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Baseball coach/basketball ref here again with a game management question. During all pre-game meetings the umpires discuss not disputing judgment calls. My question is how you would handle coaches who don't openly question ball/strikes, but instead nibble on the edges with loud (i.e., easy to hear across the field) comments like:

• Supposedly yelled to catcher "Timmy, where was that?"
• Said to no one in particular "Oooh, that looked really good!"

You get the idea. I know how I would handle as a basketball official but was wondering how you would typically address those kinds of comments (if at all).

First - I would not tell the managers / coaches at the plate meeting not to dispute judgement calls.

It is in a managers / coaches nature to dispute judgement calls. Baseball is a game of judgement, and if you can't question it, then why play the game???? I realize it is written in the rules, however, don't bring it up at the plate meeting. You're just setting yourself up for confrontation.

I would instead phrase it at the plate meeting as "If you have a questions, request time, when granted, come talk to us, we're very approachable." This gives the perception that you will discuss anything, including judgement call in a calm and professional manner.

Then you can follow mbyron's advice of: Ignore, then Look (dirty and mean), warn, bench and eject.

However, if you're hearing this at every game, then I would suggest looking carefully at the game your calling and the level of ball. Something isn't matching up and you need to evaluate if what you're calling isn't what is being expected.

[MD Longhorn]

Not exactly equal, but shick reminds me of a green umpire I once had in my association - 2 weeks in, he asks advice on how to handle the constant complaints about his strike zone. We discuss a bit until our veteran guy says, "so, are you getting it from one side or both?" Both. "It it all over the place, or is it consistently on pitches you're calling balls or strikes?" Balls. "Just low, outside, or everywhere?"

"Everywhere, all sides. What these coaches don't understand is that the strike zone is much smaller than everyone thinks it is, smaller than baseball."

Um ... what do you mean?

"Well, the ball is bigger - it's harder to get the entire ball over the plate."

And let the umpire training recommence.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Mbyron - I've found that having the ability to assess technicals also helps in these situations in basketball (i.e., one more tool in to use). It all depends on the circumstance, of course, but I'll usually try and talk a coach down first in basketball but, if he earns it, call a technical. That usually shuts them up. It's interesting how you almost have to be more tolerant in baseball for the same kind of behavior. I wonder if that's because there isn't a "T" equivalent?

Would you ever picture a scenario where, instead of progressing through the steps you outline, you simply tell the coach after the first utterance "Coach, we're not discussing/listening to comments on judgment calls" then toss him/her if they did it again?

1. The FED rule allowing umpires to restrict coaches to the dugout is supposed to be a kind of warning step, similar to sitting them down in basketball.

2. Absolutely, and a friend of mine ejected a coach last night for it: if he comes screaming out onto the field without any willingness or interest in listening to why I made a call, his rope is shorter. The line about "not discussing" I generally restrict to questions about balls and strikes.

[EsqUmp]

I think that it sort of starts things off on the wrong foot when you tell them they can't dispute judgment calls. Why bring up potential disputes in the pre-game? That seems to plant a bug in the coaches ear to look for disputes.

The disputes will find you without bringing them up on your own

[RPatrino]

Couple of points:

A good coach won't ask catchers where the pitch was from the bench. They may discuss it on the bench but they know that yelling that puts their catcher's between a rock and hard place. Most times, a catcher will ask..."was that up?" and of course, it was! IF they are asking, they know the answer. Those chirps we hear directed at no one in particular should be ignored. Like Hickey said, if you are constantly hearing chirps and *****ing about your zone, look in the mirror. It's time to get evaluated because something isn't working out.

The one I love is "that's not your pitch, Goober", I had one right down Broadway , called it a strike, the coach yells, "that's not you, Gomer". Next pitch, same spot, Gomer puts it over the left field fence. I smiled at the coach, "I guess it WAS him".

We are approachable, we will calmly discuss ANY call, but we will argue about NONE. There is no rule that states a coach can't discuss a call in a sportsmanlike manner. We should always be willing to discuss the rationale behind our calls. The downside of refusing to accommodate a legitimate request for a conference with a coach is that the refusal becomes the issue and not the call.

[DG]

I ignore the coach with where was that pitch type comments until he annoys me. Takes more than once to annoy but not much more. If catcher gives an I don't know type answer I tell him wrong answer. Catchers are smart, and from then on he will likely wave in a direction to indicate out, up, in or down.

I completely ignore "that looked good" type comments.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Not exactly equal, but shick reminds me of a green umpire I once had in my association - 2 weeks in, he asks advice on how to handle the constant complaints about his strike zone. We discuss a bit until our veteran guy says, "so, are you getting it from one side or both?" Both. "It it all over the place, or is it consistently on pitches you're calling balls or strikes?" Balls. "Just low, outside, or everywhere?"

"Everywhere, all sides. What these coaches don't understand is that the strike zone is much smaller than everyone thinks it is, smaller than baseball."

Um ... what do you mean?

"Well, the ball is bigger - it's harder to get the entire ball over the plate."

And let the umpire training recommence.

One coach might complain, and the other coach doesn't care as long as you're consistent. Shut it down in a polite manner, if that approach works. If not, use a more "conforming" tone of voice. I don't hardly have the same problems of some of y'all. Boggles my mind.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

I don't hardly have the same problems of some of y'all. Boggles my mind.

Telling others in such a diverse manner that they're idiots for not having your vast superior knowledge

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by DG

I completely ignore "that looked good" type comments.

Agreed. I take that as them just trying to encourage the pitcher (whether they actually were or were not, I don't really care.).

(Of course, "Blue, that looked good," is a different animal.)

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Telling others in such a diverse manner that they're idiots for not having your vast superior knowledge

Well... 'Don't hardly" means the same as "do" or "does"... and some minds are easier to boggle.