2012 NFHS Case Book, Runner leaves base early

[umpire george]

Page 65 of 2012 Case book for NFHS.
Runner leaves base early.
8.6.21 situation: With R1 on 3rd base and R2 on 1st base. F1 double touches for an illegal pitch. Plate umpire calls illegal pitch BUT before the hands separate to deliver the ball, R2 leaves 1st base early on her way to 2nd base. Base umpire calls "Dead Ball" and calls R2 out.
Ruling: R2 is out for leaving 1st base before F1 released the ball. The illegal pitch is enforced which results in a "ball" awarded to B3 and one base (home) to R1. (6-1-2)

Illegal pitch= delayed dead ball.
Leaving early = immediate dead ball, no pitch.
What would be call if there were 2 outs before illegal pitch was delivered and then runner left base before release of pitched ball?
What if illegal pitch was hit for a home run?

[RKBUmp]

Hmm, Ill take a stab at it.

Cant hit a dead ball for a home run, so that wouldnt be an option.

Enforce in the order the infractions happened. Illegal pitch, ball to batter, advance the runners. Then the leaving early, runner out. Score 1 on the illegal pitch, leaving early ends the inning.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Hmm, Ill take a stab at it.

Cant hit a dead ball for a home run, so that wouldnt be an option.

Enforce in the order the infractions happened. Illegal pitch, ball to batter, advance the runners. Then the leaving early, runner out. Score 1 on the illegal pitch, leaving early ends the inning.

R2 was out before R1 reached HP.

[MD Longhorn]

The order of the infractions doesn't matter. The out occurred before the run - if that's the 3rd out, no run.

(Consider another scenario with an out due to an infraction and an award due to something else: 2 outs, R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st - Batter hits one high to the outfield, not going to be caught - obstruction by F3, umpire thinks at that moment that all 3 runners would have scored absent the obstruction. However, R2 is jogging, and BR is admiring the hit and not paying attention, passing R2 before R1 crosses the plate. BR out for passing, no runs score.)

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

2 outs, R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st - Batter hits one high to the outfield, not going to be caught - obstruction by F3, umpire thinks at that moment that all 3 runners would have scored absent the obstruction. However, R2 is jogging, and BR is admiring the hit and not paying attention, passing R2 before R1 crosses the plate. BR out for passing, no runs score.)

You have some really weird games.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

You have some really weird games.

LOL - just an example.

I will admit that in 18 years of umpiring, I've called a runner out for passing another runner exactly once.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

The order of the infractions doesn't matter. The out occurred before the run - if that's the 3rd out, no run.

(Consider another scenario with an out due to an infraction and an award due to something else: 2 outs, R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st - Batter hits one high to the outfield, not going to be caught - obstruction by F3, umpire thinks at that moment that all 3 runners would have scored absent the obstruction. However, R2 is jogging, and BR is admiring the hit and not paying attention, passing R2 before R1 crosses the plate. BR out for passing, no runs score.)

Um...BR physically passes an obstructed preceding runner?

8.6.4 SITUATION E

With R1 on second and R2 on first, B3 hits a ball safely to the outfield fence. After R1 takes off from second, she is obstructed by F6 and knocked down and may be injured. The umpire signals obstruction on F6. Both R2 and B3 pass R1 (who is still on the ground) and subsequently score. F8 finally throws the ball to F6 who tags R1 between second and third base.

RULING: There is no infraction assessed for passing a runner. Both R1 and R2 score on the play. R1 is awarded home and scores, as this is the base she would have achieved had there been no obstruction. (8-4-3b Penalty c)

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

Um...BR physically passes an obstructed preceding runner?

8.6.4 SITUATION E

With R1 on second and R2 on first, B3 hits a ball safely to the outfield fence. After R1 takes off from second, she is obstructed by F6 and knocked down and may be injured. The umpire signals obstruction on F6. Both R2 and B3 pass R1 (who is still on the ground) and subsequently score. F8 finally throws the ball to F6 who tags R1 between second and third base.

RULING: There is no infraction assessed for passing a runner. Both R1 and R2 score on the play. R1 is awarded home and scores, as this is the base she would have achieved had there been no obstruction. (8-4-3b Penalty c)

This is one of those "fine and dandy" rulings that satisfy people at the time, but as has been demonstrated in other threads, opens up the possibility for TWP scenarios than one can imagine.....and that is when coaches and umpires begin to get creative in their application of the rule.

Just think it could be handled better in the interpretation. This is just my PERSONAL opinion.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

Um...BR physically passes an obstructed preceding runner?

8.6.4 SITUATION E

With R1 on second and R2 on first, B3 hits a ball safely to the outfield fence. After R1 takes off from second, she is obstructed by F6 and knocked down and may be injured. The umpire signals obstruction on F6. Both R2 and B3 pass R1 (who is still on the ground) and subsequently score. F8 finally throws the ball to F6 who tags R1 between second and third base.

RULING: There is no infraction assessed for passing a runner. Both R1 and R2 score on the play. R1 is awarded home and scores, as this is the base she would have achieved had there been no obstruction. (8-4-3b Penalty c)

Not the same as my play. In mine, BR was obstructed and then passed a runner. That's still an out. In yours, the obstructed runner was the PASSED runner, and the obstruction was the cause of the passing.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Not the same as my play. In mine, BR was obstructed and then passed a runner. That's still an out. In yours, the obstructed runner was the PASSED runner, and the obstruction was the cause of the passing.

Ok. It wasnt clear who was obstructed R1 or the BR.