Dirt and the ball

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

ASA Casebook Play 6.6-3 reads, F5 rubs dirt on the ball and gives it to F1 to pitch. Ruling: Illegal Pitch. If a player continues to place an illegal substance on the ball, the player should be ejected from the game. 6-6A Effect.

Oddly enough, 2012 ASA Umpire Exam Alternate Fast Pitch question 15 reads "A pitcher picks up dirt with the pitching hand and does not wipe the dirt off
before pitching. This is an illegal pitch." The Answer key reads, FALSE. 6-6A
FP & MP.

It may be odd, but it is a published ASA interpretation and thus the correct answer.

Placing the dirt directly on the ball is interpreted as "applying a foreign substance". Using dirt on the hand is interpreted as using "an approved drying agent" and does not require the pitcher to wipe off her hand before touching the ball.

Having said that...would you not consider rubbing the ball in the dirt as applying a foreign substance?

[azbigdawg]

pitchers HATE brand new slick balls, which is fine.... so what I do with any new balls that havent been rubbed down already.... is rub them down myself ... If I see the pitcher do it, we swap it out for one that is, and I check/rub it myself before returning it to play. No biggie.... no hassle...

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by azbigdawg

pitchers HATE brand new slick balls, which is fine.... so what I do with any new balls that havent been rubbed down already.... is rub them down myself ... If I see the pitcher do it, we swap it out for one that is, and I check/rub it myself before returning it to play. No biggie.... no hassle...

Don't you know you are not supposed to be reasonable on this topic?

[tcannizzo]

Here is a suggestion for some to use in their signature:
"I'm not happy, until you're not happy"

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Here is a suggestion for some to use in their signature:
"I'm not happy, until you're not happy"

I know an assignor that uses that as his motto.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

As already stated numerous times.....In a NFHS contest, I would take the ball from the pitcher and give her a new ball. I would inspect the ball and if it is not too scuffed up it goes right back into my ball bag.

I have rarely had this issue as I rub up the balls myself prior to the game.

Joel

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by Gulf Coast Blue

As already stated numerous times.....In a NFHS contest, I would take the ball from the pitcher and give her a new ball. I would inspect the ball and if it is not too scuffed up it goes right back into my ball bag.

I have rarely had this issue as I rub up the balls myself prior to the game.

Joel

I sometimes rub my balls during a game although the cup kind of gets in the way.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

I sometimes rub my balls during a game although the cup kind of gets in the way.

Yeah.....damn cup......

Joel

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Don't you know you are not supposed to be reasonable on this topic?

oops! Sorry!!!!

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

ASA Casebook Play 6.6-3 reads, F5 rubs dirt on the ball and gives it to F1
to pitch. Ruling: Illegal Pitch. If a player continues to place an illegal
substance on the ball, the player should be ejected from the game. 6-6A Effect.

Oddly enough, 2012 ASA Umpire Exam Alternate Fast Pitch question 15 reads "A pitcher picks up dirt with the pitching hand and does not wipe the dirt off
before pitching. This is an illegal pitch." The Answer key reads, FALSE. 6-6A
FP & MP.

This is actually quite helpful. My partner told me that dirt wasn't a foreign substance in softball. I couldn't find anything in the NFHS rulebook that supported or denied this statement. Since he also does a lot of ASA, I now know where he got the idea and I see how it is probably an incorrect interpretation on his part.

Thank you.

For the others, there is much more to the story. I kept the question simple to get the facts I needed.

Rita

[BretMan]

Since you mentioned ASA, here is the ruling that they published on their website. This was in the "Umpire" section, under the March 2010 "Plays and Clarifications".

Foreign Substances

While traveling around the country to be an instructor at National Umpire Schools, Region Rule clinics or Local Association Umpire Schools it is always interesting to listen to the local umpires talk about rules and rule applications in our great game of Amateur Softball. Throughout the country our umpires ask about rules and plays that come up from time to time. Local umpires talk about rules in a general sense and how those rules apply in our 2010 ASA Umpire Manual Official Rules of Softball. It is refreshing to see umpires dig into the book to understand the intent of a rule and how its application applies to their situations.

One common question from all areas of the country, especially in the game of Fast Pitch but would apply to other games is “By rule, is dirt a foreign substance?” Do you need to wipe off your hand if you pick up dirt and rub it on your hands?” Rule 6, Section 6A. Fast Pitch states that a defensive player shall not at any time during the game be allowed to use a foreign substance upon the ball. Under the supervision and control of the umpire, powder resin and or an approved manufactured drying agent may be used by the pitcher….

Why would we consider dirt, something common to the ground, a” foreign substance”? If a pitcher or any other defensive player picks up dirt and applies it to the ball we say “no”. We do not allow the application of any material to the ball. Players can apply resin to their hand, not to the ball. If a pitcher picks up a handful of dirt or wipes the ground with their hand, then rubs their hands together, there is no foreign substance being transferred. If a defensive player puts dirt in their hand and throws it on the ground, then catches a thrown or batted ball and returns it to the pitcher do we call this illegal? No. Example: If the catcher wipes their hand on the ground before catching the pitch and returns the ball to the pitcher without wiping their hand off do we have a violation of Rule 6? The answer is no. If we do not, then why do umpires from around the country say that the pitcher must wipe their hand off after touching dirt? Our Rule 6 is very specific, it says any “defensive player shall not at any time during a game be allowed to use any foreign substance upon the ball.”

So, if dirt can and has been used as a natural drying agent to dry off the hands, we do not believe it is mandatory for the pitcher to wipe off their hand if they pick up dirt, throw it to the ground or rub it into their hands. We do not allow dirt to be applied directly to the ball just as we do not permit any other substance. Therefore applying dirt to the hand and not wiping the hand off is perfectly legal by ASA Official Rules of Softball.

So, dirt is considered a foreign substance when it is intentionally and purposely applied to the ball by a player. But if the ball gets dirty through normal game play, that isn't illegal. And if a player's hand just happens to be dirty when she touches the ball, that's not a rule violation either.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Rita C

This is actually quite helpful. My partner told me that dirt wasn't a foreign substance in softball. I couldn't find anything in the NFHS rulebook that supported or denied this statement. Since he also does a lot of ASA, I now know where he got the idea and I see how it is probably an incorrect interpretation on his part.

Thank you.

For the others, there is much more to the story. I kept the question simple to get the facts I needed.

Rita

Well, if you are going to look at ASA, this may help also:

March 2010 Plays and Clarifications

Rule 6, Section 6, Fast Pitch: Foreign Substance:
While traveling around the country to be an instructor at National Umpire Schools, Region Rule clinics or Local Association Umpire Schools it is always interesting to listen to the local umpires talk about rules and rule applications in our great game of Amateur Softball. Throughout the country our umpires ask about rules and plays that come up from time to time. Local umpires talk about rules in a general sense and how those rules apply in our 2010 ASA Umpire Manual Official Rules of Softball. It is refreshing to see umpires dig into the book to understand the intent of a rule and how its application applies to their situations.
One common question from all areas of the country, especially in the game of Fast Pitch but would apply to other games is “By rule, is dirt a foreign substance?” Do you need to wipe off your hand if you pick up dirt and rub it on your hands?” Rule 6, Section 6A. Fast Pitch states that a defensive player shall not at any time during the game be allowed to use a foreign substance upon the ball. Under the supervision and control of the umpire, powder resin and or an approved manufactured drying agent may be used by the pitcher….
Why would we consider dirt, something common to the ground, a” foreign substance”? If a pitcher or any other defensive player picks up dirt and applies it to the ball we say “no”. We do not allow the application of any material to the ball. Players can apply resin to their hand, not to the ball. If a pitcher picks up a handful of dirt or wipes the ground with their hand, then rubs their hands together, there is no foreign substance being transferred. If a defensive player puts dirt in their hand and throws it on the ground, then catches a thrown or batted ball and returns it to the pitcher do we call this illegal? No. Example: If the catcher wipes their hand on the ground before catching the pitch and returns the ball to the pitcher without wiping their hand off do we have a violation of Rule 6? The answer is no. If we do not, then why do umpires from around the country say that the pitcher must wipe their hand off after touching dirt? Our Rule 6 is very specific, it says any “defensive player shall not at any time during a game be allowed to use any foreign substance upon the ball.”
So, if dirt can and has been used as a natural drying agent to dry off the hands, we do not believe it is mandatory for the pitcher to wipe off their hand if they pick up dirt, throw it to the ground or rub it into their hands. We do not allow dirt to be applied directly to the ball just as we do not permit any other substance. Therefore applying dirt to the hand and not wiping the hand off is perfectly legal by ASA Official Rules of Softball.

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by ASA

Why would we consider dirt, something common to the ground, a” foreign substance”?

[trolling]
So, what if F1 picks up a generous portion of the chalk from the pitcher's circle and lays it all over that beautiful optic yellow orb obliterating some of those lovely red stitches?

Is the chalk a foreign substance? or is it common to the ground?
[/trolling]

[BretMan]

When the rule book talks about foreign substances, it isn't refering to substances that are foreign to the field. Sure, you'll find dirt on any field- lots of it. It's refering to substances that are foreign to the ball.

The field might have dirt, mud, grass, clay, chalk, spit or pine tar on it. There's no rule about any of these getting on the ball by chance, through normal game play and use. It's not a rule violation until a defensive player intentionally applies the substance to the ball.

I think that is the distiction that causes so much confusion. People have a hard time wrapping their mind around the concept of something common to any field being interpreted as a foreign substance. A common argument from someone that doesn't get this is, "Are we supposed to call an illegal pitch everytime the ball gets batted through the infield or a pitch bounces in the dirt? After all, the ball has dirt on it and if you consider dirt a foreign substance, that's illegal".

No! The dirt wasn't intentionally put on the ball by a defensive player!

The ASA ruling clarifies that dirt on the hand is treated the same as any other approved drying agent. A pitcher can apply powdered resin to her hand and then grab the ball. She cannot apply the resin directly to the ball. It's the same with dirt.

To the best of my knowledge, NFHS has not issued a similar interpretation for their games. To me, if a pitcher rubs the ball in the dirt I would treat it as a defensive player intentionally applying a foreign substance to the ball.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Having said that...would you not consider rubbing the ball in the dirt as applying a foreign substance?

How FOREIGN could it be? We play on it!