first ejection in a while

[blueballs]

Some weeks ago I had a coach who was very much like this. He had been a real prick the whole weekend and I got him in the semi-finals of the losers bracket.

Three pitches into the game he's already crying about the zone. I just gave him the stare (you know the one you try to copy from your wife when she's upset with you).

Didn't work. Couple batters later, and his starting pitcher is getting pounded, he just starts getting irate about me not calling the outside pitches, claiming "She has a good breaking curve." She was breaking two feet before the plate and curving 8 inches outside.

So he finally says the one word I hate. "Homer". I call time, walk over to the dugout, and through the fence I have a firm conversation with him. Very much like this:

Me: Coach. I strongly recommend you find your composure and conduct yourself in a more professional manner. You will adress me as Sir or Blue. Do you understand?

Coach: I have never seen such..

Me: Coach. I am not looking for your opinion here. Do you understand my first question?

Coach: Give any guy a shirt...

Me: COACH! I asked you a question. Are you ging to answer it or just sit here and display this immature acts that you can clearly see are not impressing anyone?

COACH: I understand.

Me: Good. Now, I want you to gather up your things and leave and if you say one word or make a scene I will forfiet this game. Do you understand me?

Coach: Yes.

And he left.

[IHSAIllini]

Coach, I'd be irate if I didn't just feel sorry for you. Honestly, how long have you been coaching? My advice for you, sir, is to understand that the umpire will call the zone the way they call the zone, and that's the way it is going to be. Until they bring QuesTec into Little League I plan on calling the zone the way I always do - first consult league rules, then governing rules, then realistic age of players.

Balls and strikes are just one of many calls you DON'T get to argue. That's why they are called judgement calls.

--What is your tight or small zone, and then defend it with a rule! They say coaches can be jerks, but aren't umpires setting themselves up by calling a "tight zone" and making parents and coaches on both teams upset.--

Once, a minor league umpire called a perfect pitch a ball. When asked why, his response was ''that's the way I called it.'' Umpire's calls are a part of the game, and if you don't like it, switch to video games. That's the only time you'll find the umpire you want. And quite frankly, I think you'd argue with them too.

No-one likes having a strike called that they didn't think was a strike, but it's part of the game. And until you put on a blue shirt and work our side of the line, you're not going to understand it. Sorry.

[Edited by IHSAIllini on Jun 27th, 2003 at 12:20 PM]

[Dakota]

Couple of comments on my way of handling such situations...

First, I won't have a discussion through the fence in front of this team. I will invite the coach out onto the field for a private discussion.

Second, the question I have asked coaches who complain about ball is strikes is a simple on, "Coach, are you aware that arguing balls and strikes is against the rules?"

Similarly, if the coach is making disparaging remarks about me I will ask, "Coach are you aware that making disparaging remarks about game officials is against the rules?"

After the coach answers "Yes," I am done unless or until he does it again. If the coach continues to argue / make remarks instead of answering yes or no, he is gone.

Finally, I won't threaten consequences if the coach doesn't leave quietly; I'll just inform him to leave quietly. If he doesn't, then I invite the assistant coach out for a discussion where I ask him, "Coach, are you aware that if your head coach does not leave quietly within 1 minute the game is subject to forfeit?"

While this may take a little longer, I like it because it gives the coach ample opportunity to keep himself in the game and/or to keep the game from being forfeited, it does not show up the coach in front of his players, and it does not put me in a position of no flexibility because of a threat I have made.

[AlabamaBlue]

The way the book describes a strike zone is a square. The way I see it it's an oval. I don't bring the bottom up, I do bring the top down a bit, and I widen the sides out.

[Coachtindell]

Not sure I understand your question. I would not understand why you would call a pitch at someones chin. I think what you are saying is that if the person is 2 feet forward in the box, that the pitch is actually a strike over the plate.

If it were possible, which in some situations it is, I wouldn't complain.

The only umpires that drove me crazy this year were the ones that believed anything more than 6 inches below the belt and six inches above was a strike, and if the cather moved her glove at all it must have been outside or inside.

I WILL MAKE A POINT OF SAYING RIGHT NOW THOUGH. WE HAD SOME GOOD UMPIRES FOR A CHANGE THIS YEAR. We only had one really young one, and they were all friendly to the kids.

Only problem we had was with one who forgot his chest protector and refused to get behind the plate. The field manager made him (not at our request), but he took it out on us. All the rest (over 10 games) were awesome.

I can't tell you the impact that had on parents, kids and coaches. A good blue makes everybody happy.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Coachtindell
Not sure I understand your question. I would not understand why you would call a pitch at someones chin. I think what you are saying is that if the person is 2 feet forward in the box, that the pitch is actually a strike over the plate.

That, and the ball is ~4" in diameter (a little less for 10U), and with the small ones in their hitting stance, there is less than 4" vertically from their chin to their arm pits, and if any part of the ball is in the zone anywhere over the plate, it is a strike.

A lot of fans (fewer coaches) view it the opposite - if any part of the ball is outside the zone while in front of the batter, is cannot be a strike.

Only problem we had was with one who forgot his chest protector and refused to get behind the plate. The field manager made him (not at our request), but he took it out on us.

Ironic... we had a thread on this site a few weeks ago regarding the "macho" approach of not wearing all protective equipment. If I remember right, you have a 10U team. It is not uncommon at all for umpires around here to leave their chest protector in their bag when calling 10U. Personally, I think they're nuts...

[Coachtindell]

IHSAIllini

feel sorry for me? Why because I questioned you. We aren't on the field now, so take the time and explain yourself.

What is the rule on the strike zone. What do I tell my kid who is pitching by the rule book but you refuse to call it. What do I tell my 10 year old daughter who pitches one down the gut at the belt and he misses it.

I tell you what I tell her. There is nothing I can do for you Honey, keep pitching, you can't argue the call it's a judgement call on for the umpire.

Then I look at my assistant coach and say good grief he is killing us, unless he is calling it both ways then I say well at least he is consistent. In many cases it benefits me when you do call it tight, because she outpitches most of the teams in her league and my hitters aren't so good.

OK, I have to deal with it, but you didn't answer the question. ASA rules, what is the strike zone. I don't care if they are 10 or 20, if they are 4 feet tall or 6 feet tall.

The answer is, it is the same rule for everyone. How can you quote the rule book all day long and then call this one a judgement call, the strike zone is spelled out. I am not talking about the close calls, that could go either way. I am talking about intentionally, knowingly, braggedly changing the strike zone.

Telling others, I have a quote "small strike zone"

PS.. Again you don't have to feel sorry for me, this isn't my life. Lighten up, lift the chip from your shoulder, I am not questioning your ability, only your application of the rule.

[IHSAIllini]

It's somewhat ironic, because I never said what the zone I called was. I call one of the widest zones in the league, because I've grown tired of calling walk after walk.

I don't have a chip on my shoulder, sir, I'm just sick of hearing those complain who have never put on the blue shirt.

You keep pointing back to the rule book. Well, yes, there is a specific rule. Of coures, I might add that my games are under FED and not ASA, but that's just splitting hairs at this point. All I can tell you is that umpire judgement supersedes the rule book. And no, it is not a written rule. It is simply practical game manangement.

If you feel you're being slighted, it's understandable. Someone will be unhappy, usually the one on the worse end of the call...but oh well. A lot of things in life don't go exactly by the book, and if you don't believe me, try watching MLB one of these days.

[Coachtindell]

I am really only talking about umpires who, and there have been some on here, indicate they call a smaller than the rules strike zone on purpose, and then wear it like a badge of honor.

I am seldom dissatisfied with the calls, as I realize it is impossible to be perfect.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Coachtindell
I am really only talking about umpires who, and there have been some on here, indicate they call a smaller than the rules strike zone on purpose, and then wear it like a badge of honor.

I am seldom dissatisfied with the calls, as I realize it is impossible to be perfect.

Just out of curiousity, why do you think anyone would call a smaller strike zone? An umpire who shrinks the strike zone is an idiot.

I get tired of hearing about how an umpire "squeezes" pitchers. It's not like we are on the clock and getting paid more the longer the game lasts. Games are long enough as it is without making the pitcher put the ball on a dime.

Did any of these coaches actually ever think that maybe their pitcher just isn't hitting the strike zone? Or do I once again have to hear about how little Suzie NEVER walks anyone, has perfect control of her 70 mph riser on her way to striking out 20 batters a game. And that is at the age of 12!

Overly sarcastic? Yep, but you wouldn't believe how often umpires hear this type of stuff.

I can buy the point that maybe an umpire just doesn't have a good strike zone or that s/he lost it for a batter or two (it happens!). But an umpire who intentionally shrinks their strike zone for any reason, needs to find a new sport.

A coach who believes that called balls are the umpires fault should go with them.

[kellerumps]

Well Said Mike....I wish I had your way with words.

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

Just out of curiousity, why do you think anyone would call a smaller strike zone? An umpire who shrinks the strike zone is an idiot.

I get tired of hearing about how an umpire "squeezes" pitchers. It's not like we are on the clock and getting paid more the longer the game lasts. Games are long enough as it is without making the pitcher put the ball on a dime.

Did any of these coaches actually ever think that maybe their pitcher just isn't hitting the strike zone? Or do I once again have to hear about how little Suzie NEVER walks anyone, has perfect control of her 70 mph riser on her way to striking out 20 batters a game. And that is at the age of 12!

Overly sarcastic? Yep, but you wouldn't believe how often umpires hear this type of stuff.

I can buy the point that maybe an umpire just doesn't have a good strike zone or that s/he lost it for a batter or two (it happens!). But an umpire who intentionally shrinks their strike zone for any reason, needs to find a new sport.

A coach who believes that called balls are the umpires fault should go with them.

Mike,

Yes Sirre Bob, Uh Mike -

Bravo

Great rebuttal.

glen

[IHSAIllini]

Concur. There is no valid reason to prolong a game by calling the 'tight zone.'

[Coachtindell]

What heck are you talking about. Last time I checked every game I played in had a time limit. Walking in 20 runs doesn't take anymore time than 6 innings.

We didn't have a game go 6 innings all year long, even when we had 2 strong pitchers.

So that arguement doesn't hold water. I went to a 12 and under state tourny and watched 2 games. Didn't see any games go 6 either.

Nice try....

Why would an umpire do it, I don't know? Most don't in fact, but there are some that do. I know at least one.

I'm not attacking all of you, and I don't expect the one's who do have a small zone to change, only recognize they are not following the rules

[Skahtboi]

Originally posted by Coachtindell
What heck are you talking about. (punctuation) Last time I checked every game I played in had a time limit. Walking in 20 runs doesn't take anymore time than 6 innings.

Not all games have a time limit though. HS Varsity games go 7 innings, whether that takes 3 hours or 1 hour. So, in that context it makes a lot of sense. Also, Dixie tournaments go a certain number of innings depending on the age group involved, so once again it would make sense in that context. However, what Mike was trying to indicate was that no one benefits from a "decreased" strike zone, least of all the umpire who is allegedly shrinking it.