Are you f***ing kidding me

[LIUmp]

Not to put you on the spot, but I am sure there is more to this story. Can you elaborate all you know? Have you ever, at any point, had a UIC or your assignor have a conversation with you about your umpiring? If so, what was it concerning?

Do you know of the teams/level/association involved? How often have you done their games this past year? Have you had any issues in those games?

Have you had issues with partners?

Have you had issues with parents? How about a certain level? I know some guys that I've UIC'd for who are good umpires, but who have a quick temper and can not manage coaches or spectators - that is they will argue with all around.

I was umpiring in a tourney this year where the TD said that he didn't want a certain umpire to work the semis and finals because he had an issue with his game management. It was taking 3 hours and 15 minutes to play an untimed semi final because his strike zone was very inconsistent and he was out to prove a point to all involved that HE was in charge. The UIC of the tourney asked me to do the next game behind the plate and we moved him to third base for the finals. After the game he was told about his "attitude" and that he would be limited in his assignments if things didn't change.

I'm curious as to why you are completely unaware of any reason why this might be happening. Your UIC/assignor and association owe you some explanation. But, unfortunately, they do not owe you much else (meaning work).

I don't mean to sound like a hard a$$ here...but in order to get to the bottom of it, you have to start digging and finding out the problem so it can be rectified, whatever it may be.

On edit: Did you have any harsh words with your UIC or assignor? Did you turn back any games? Did you have limited availability when he needed you and now he's "taking it out on you?" Do you work for a competing organization and there's a conflict of interest?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by LIUmp

I was umpiring in a tourney this year where the TD said that he didn't want a certain umpire to work the semis and finals because he had an issue with his game management. It was taking 3 hours and 15 minutes to play an untimed semi final because his strike zone was very inconsistent and he was out to prove a point to all involved that HE was in charge. The UIC of the tourney asked me to do the next game behind the plate and we moved him to third base for the finals. After the game he was told about his "attitude" and that he would be limited in his assignments if things didn't change.

I think this is apples/oranges. Not using an umpire because s/he is not qualified isn't (or at least I think it isn't) the conversation here.

[LIUmp]

While I'm not disagreeing Mike, I don't know if it is the conversation here or not. Suppose this is an 18U tourney and the umpire in question is more "suited" to work 12U and below and runs into many more issues working any higher level games. Then we just may be talking about the same fruit after all.

[MrRabbit]

gumpire stated...

"Just got an e-mail from our local deputy UIC / assignor that I will not be working tournament this weekend because teams threatened not to play in the tournament if I was there!!!!!"

The reason aside for his local UIC / assigner choose to address this issue with an e-mail is nothing but "Chicken "Sh*T".

This matter should have handled by a phone call at least.

Better yet should have been in person with a detailed discussion with the facts in either case.

And gumpire said that he has not heard of any problems concerning rule knowledge / application, or any other reasons at this point in time.

If there are issues they should have been deal with long before this happened.

This UIC need to have come to meeting with their high ups, lets hope their next in charge does not operate the same way.

[gumpire]

Originally Posted by LIUmp

Not to put you on the spot, but I am sure there is more to this story. Can you elaborate all you know? Have you ever, at any point, had a UIC or your assignor have a conversation with you about your umpiring? If so, what was it concerning?

The TD for this tournament also run a rec league at the same complex and has stated to me on occasion that teams complained (during regular leave play) that I was allowing pitchers to exceed the height limit and asked me to bring it down. This was when the limit was 12' and he suggested I call anything above 10' illegal.

Do you know of the teams/level/association involved? How often have you done their games this past year? Have you had any issues in those games?

I do not know any of the teams for absolute, but we are a pretty small community and I would estimate I know (from league play) at least 1/2 of the players. It is a Co-Ed C/D/E for fun tournament. ASA rules. I have worked other tournaments this year (including a local Co-Ed for fun last weekend, which probably had many of the same teams) as well as Fall season (ended early Oct). No issues.

Have you had issues with partners?

No.

How about a certain level? I know some guys that I've UIC'd for who are good umpires, but who have a quick temper and can not manage coaches or spectators - that is they will argue with all around.

I only work SP "adult" rec league locally. I have been doing that within the same association and the same local rec leagues for 4 years now.

...you have to start digging and finding out the problem so it can be rectified, whatever it may be.

Digging has begun!!!!

On edit: Did you have any harsh words with your UIC or assignor? Did you turn back any games? Did you have limited availability when he needed you and now he's "taking it out on you?" Do you work for a competing organization and there's a conflict of interest?

I was not available to work this summer and communicated that to the assignor early in the year. When I became available at the beginning of August (start of Fall season) I was regularly assigned games and worked all that I was assigned.

[soundedlikeastrike]

"3) If I'd known it was that easy to get rid of them, I'd have told them that I was working every single game ever!!!!"


I gotta ask, is this the problem?

Did/do you have specific issues/problems with certain teams you work in this league?

TD's/Host's or whomever is putting on this tournament, are in it usually for one thing, to make money. At least in my experiences, tournaments are fund raisers.

Let's see, do I lose out on X teams fees (3 teams X 250-350 bucks per) or do I hurt one umpires feelings?
Seems a no brainer to me from the TD's perspective.

Your assigning organization is somewhat in the same boat, they generally get a cut for each assignment, no? Do they lose X amount or do they hurt one guys feelings? Do they back one at the expense of all the others?

I was faced with a similar situation, a local BB Pres. and coach I'd umpired disagreed with my " verbatim, by the book ruling" and stated to my UIC, "we will not play if this guy works." He was an uniformed, unknowlegable, loud mouthed hot head and really had no clue but, he was still the boss, it happens.

My association and fellow umpires backed me all the way, at the risk of losing lot's of money.
And unlike you're scenario it was all up front, communication was candid and open. My association confirmed to the Pres that; "we do the assigning not you." I was assigned the next game "the pres's" and additonal upcoming games as well the following week, this was also communicated to the pres.

I feigned injury and sickness and said "sorry boss I can't cover those games, please find someone else."
They did and all were happy and content including me. I was not willing to jeopordize a good thing for my association just so my feelings would go unhurt, this was a youth league, they had seen enough of this pres's antics already and didn't need any further embarrasing moments via him, and it was a great local training ground for our newbies, noI to mention a cash cow, I know a good thing when I see it..

So give em the benefit of the doubt, but do indeed keep digging and certainly communicate with your assigning body to get the "no stuff" details of the situation.

If it was really the TD's decision then I would be hesitant to hang your assignor just yet. Just a thought, but unless you've signed agreements between your assoc. and the leagues your covering, you're assoc. really has no choice but to swallow some pride and cover the games the way the customer wants it or move on and find something else, not always a viable option these days.

Express your feelings with the assoc. E-board or whatever mechanism is in place, perhaps at one of your all hands meetings? Get this in the open, then attack it as an association in a "consolidated manner." Perhaps an amendment to your by-laws, if a blue gets singled out and banned for no good reason, we'll pay him a stipend anyway, file it under travel, or misc. funds and move on.

Continue to work hard to make teams say; hey, if this guy "isn't" working this tourny, we won't show up."

[IRISHMAFIA]

Any ultimatum by any team should be, "thank you, maybe the next tournament" and move on.

Use to hear all sorts of crap from teams and the State Player Rep (ASA) whining about how 'WE', not anyone else, did not run tournaments for SP teams in the area and that is why the teams didn't play ASA. It should be noted that 'WE' have tried, but it seems no matter what weekend is chosen, it just wasn't good enough for them. So, last year at the state meeting I stood up and challenged the State Player Rep to get together with his friends and teams and pick any weekend and we would run a tournament for them, they set any parameters that would not be a safety issue (HR, time limit, etc). The next call I get from him will be the first in more than a year.

Had an associate work a Men's Major or Super Nat for either Bernie P or Dan B and the tournament had to go to a reserve box of softballs and two brands ended up on a field in the same game. My buddy threw in whatever ball came out of his bag, didn't really pay attention to the brand name. Well, at one point the manager of one of the teams started giving my pal a hard time and demanded they be able to hit the ball they want. The umpire told them they were going to hit whatever ball came out of the bag. After a few minutes, the UIC was at the field and asked what the problem was. Before the umpire could say anything, this manager started on him and stated his team wasn't playing with XYZ ball. The UIC told the PU to pull his crew, the game was over. The manager started back-pedaling quickly. The UIC told him he and team could pack their bags, if they weren't going to play, they could go home.

Moral of the story is that dealing and complying with ultimatums usually doesn't end well for anyone and can actually be detrimental to those who think they have helped the situation through accommodation.

[jr131981]

Originally Posted by gumpire

The TD for this tournament also run a rec league at the same complex and has stated to me on occasion that teams complained (during regular leave play) that I was allowing pitchers to exceed the height limit and asked me to bring it down. This was when the limit was 12' and he suggested I call anything above 10' illegal.



I do not know any of the teams for absolute, but we are a pretty small community and I would estimate I know (from league play) at least 1/2 of the players. It is a Co-Ed C/D/E for fun tournament. ASA rules. I have worked other tournaments this year (including a local Co-Ed for fun last weekend, which probably had many of the same teams) as well as Fall season (ended early Oct). No issues.



No.



I only work SP "adult" rec league locally. I have been doing that within the same association and the same local rec leagues for 4 years now.



Digging has begun!!!!



I was not available to work this summer and communicated that to the assignor early in the year. When I became available at the beginning of August (start of Fall season) I was regularly assigned games and worked all that I was assigned.

i knew this had to be a SP issue and not FP. from my personal experience as a player, there was this one blue who was just flat out terrible and it become a running joke during league play that teams would use the number of blown calls instead of the runs to determine the winner. and many teams asked/politely demanded that the blue not work tournaments. in your OP you said judgment shouldnt be a determining factor in evaluating umpire performance, but lets be real, if your judgment of whos safe/out catch/no catch is bad, why shouldnt that reflect negatively on your ability.

and just bc teams are rec coed level, doesnt mean the umpires shouldnt be doing their best job. i used to ump this beginner temple league (as in jewish), where there might have been a 3-4 tournament caliber players out of the entire 30 team league. my first game happened to be that of the league commish, afterwards he commented to me that he appreciated my effort even though the caliber of play wasnt good. i told him i put forth the same effort regardless of talent level and they pay me, actually a little more, than the top level leagues, so why should i care how good the players are.

if i were in your shoes, and believed i didnt do anything to warrant the non assignment, i would ask the UIC to be assigned to one of the teams that complained and have the UIC come evaluate that game. if the team is complaining for no reason, the UIC will know, if there is something you need to work on to hopefully alleviate those complaints, the UIC will know that too.

[jr131981]

Originally Posted by MrRabbit

gumpire stated...

"Just got an e-mail from our local deputy UIC / assignor that I will not be working tournament this weekend because teams threatened not to play in the tournament if I was there!!!!!"

The reason aside for his local UIC / assigner choose to address this issue with an e-mail is nothing but "Chicken "Sh*T".

This matter should have handled by a phone call at least.

Better yet should have been in person with a detailed discussion with the facts in either case.

i have to respectfully disagree with the chicken siht characterization. as one someone under 30, email is the modern version of a phone call. yes i agree this should have been done in person, but to me, if a face to face meeting cannot happen, i wouldnt have a problem, and might even prefer, an email vs a phone call.

i have know many people who, while not socially awkward, dont feel comfortable dealing with "difficult" situations face to face and are more apt to express their true sentiments over email.

[MrRabbit]

" as one someone under 30"

"i have know many people who, while not socially awkward, don't feel comfortable dealing with "difficult" situations face to face and are more apt to express their true sentiments over email."

Your statements cover the problem exactly...

If you lack the ability to communicate , therefore non being able to deal with "difficult" situations face to face you do not have want it takes to umpire.

Because face to face communication is an important part of umpiring.

And required to step up and take a leadership role.

If you can not step up and look me in the eye and discuss it face to face then step to the side and let someone take a shot at it.

[SNIPERBBB]

Somehow you must of developed a bad reputation, fairly or unfairly, that your UIC agrees with or doesn't want the headache.

The TD could of rigged the assignments to allow you to never have to see the team or teams involved. If theres that too many teams that have had enough issues with you to bring them up to the TD so they couldnt be avoided, you must be doing something special.

Being blackballed from assignments isnt unheard of. There is a local varsity basketball coach that will attempt to buy out contracts of officials that dared whack or double whack him if he learns of the officiating assignments at away schools.

[jr131981]

Originally Posted by MrRabbit

" as one someone under 30"

"i have know many people who, while not socially awkward, don't feel comfortable dealing with "difficult" situations face to face and are more apt to express their true sentiments over email."

Your statements cover the problem exactly...

If you lack the ability to communicate , therefore non being able to deal with "difficult" situations face to face you do not have want it takes to umpire.

Because face to face communication is an important part of umpiring.

And required to step up and take a leadership role.

If you can not step up and look me in the eye and discuss it face to face then step to the side and let someone take a shot at it.

you missed the main point of my post, part of the blame does go to me for not making it perfectly clear.

my point was, with todays technology and prevalent usage of computers, communicating via email is equivalent, at least in my and many of my under 30 friends eyes, to a phone call. also, in many industries, email is preferred bc there is proof of the communication whereas a phone call becomes a he said she said situation.

you do make a good point about the communication skills needed to umpire.