quick Q regarding R1 passing R2

[DeputyUICHousto]

What if bases are loaded and the runner from 3rd scores prior to the batter/runner passing the other runner at 1st base?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto

When the batter/runner passed the runner at 1st base he was out. That's the third out. How did you get a fourth out? The caught fly ball no longer matters as you already have the third out.

Untrue on so many levels. Are you really saying that the BR is NOT out in this situation?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto

What if bases are loaded and the runner from 3rd scores prior to the batter/runner passing the other runner at 1st base?

This is only "fun" if you screw it up and don't call the Batter out on the fly ball ... like you implied. You've actually illustrated a perfect example of why what you posted is incorrect.

[jr131981]

Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto

When the batter/runner passed the runner at 1st base he was out. That's the third out. How did you get a fourth out? The caught fly ball no longer matters as you already have the third out.

in my scenarios, the BR doesnt pass anyone, the runner who was on 1st passes the runner who was on 2nd.

[jr131981]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

OK. Don't all your questions have the same answer?? Or were they all rhetorical?

Without a fair batted ball, there are no running violations absent interference. No one has an obligation to run bases correctly when there is no obligation to run bases.

i honestly dont know

to be clear, rule 8-7-D, when a runner passes a preceding runner...... makes no mention of being a fair batter ball only.

and there is a period of time, however small, when its unknown if the ball if fair or foul.

is there something else ive overlooked?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Not sure what I'm missing here or what you really meant. Batter becoming a batter-runner has absolutely nothing to do with whether runners can run or not. Runners can move without the batter becoming BR unless you're in a non-stealing division.

Yeah, maybe I twisted this too far. The point is, TWP aside, that the violation doesn't occur without the batter becoming a BR and you have to account for that action. I really don't care what the scorekeepers do with it, but unless this is the case of a play with an illegal glove or by an unreported substitute, that batter complete the AB. There isn't anything else in the book of which I am aware which allows that batter to hit again until the next time that slot comes around.

[jr131981]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Yeah, maybe I twisted this too far. The point is, TWP aside, that the violation doesn't occur without the batter becoming a BR and you have to account for that action. I really don't care what the scorekeepers do with it, but unless this is the case of a play with an illegal glove or by an unreported substitute, that batter complete the AB. There isn't anything else in the book of which I am aware which allows that batter to hit again until the next time that slot comes around.

whats twp?

and what happens if the batter hits a long fly foul uncaught ball and R2 passes R1 before it becomes a foul ball? or if the batter hits a dribble down the line, R2 passes R1 while the ball is in fair territory, but the ball eventually settles foul?

[BretMan]

TWP= Third World Play (A play that is remotely possible, but not very likely to happen).

If the batted ball becomes foul, runners are not entitled to advance. If they weren't entitled to advance, there can't be a violation involving advancing runners.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by BretMan

If the batted ball becomes foul, runners are not entitled to advance. If they weren't entitled to advance, there can't be a violation involving advancing runners.

Or go back to post #11 which effectively says the same thing ......

Foul balls are dead balls. There are no running requirements for foul balls other than not interfering, so there are no (other) running violations.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Foul balls are dead balls. There are no running requirements for foul balls other than not interfering, so there are no (other) running violations.

+1

On the dribbler down the line, or the long fly that ends up foul or out of play - in both cases you COULD have BU ruling the runner out before the status of the ball is determined. Yes, it would look ugly, but once the ball's status ends up being foul, you have to jump in your time machine and un-ring that OUT bell. As Steve said, there are NO running requirements for foul balls (other than INT)... consider a similar situation - runner off on the pitch, misses 2nd while rounding third - ball goes foul or out of play, and runner again misses 2nd on the way back. You're not going to rule that runner out on appeal, are you? Of course not. Similar logic here - the runners are not out for something they do during what turns out to be a foul ball (other than INT)

[jr131981]

thanks for the help. i wasnt sure on the long fly ball/dribble down the line scenarios since it doesnt expliclity say it has to be a fair ball in the 'runner is out' section.