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-   -   quick Q regarding R1 passing R2 (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/81990-quick-q-regarding-r1-passing-r2.html)

jr131981 Sun Oct 09, 2011 08:31pm

quick Q regarding R1 passing R2
 
too lazy to look it up to verify

not that it matters but SP game, 2 outs, 1st and 2nd, deep fly ball hit, R1 moves about 1' off the base, R2 is running full speed and passed R1 before the ball is caught.

R2 is out and the batter who hit the fly ball leads off the next inning correct?

IRISHMAFIA Sun Oct 09, 2011 08:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jr131981 (Post 792398)
too lazy to look it up to verify

not that it matters but SP game, 2 outs, 1st and 2nd, deep fly ball hit, R1 moves about 1' off the base, R2 is running full speed and passed R1 before the ball is caught.

R2 is out and the batter who hit the fly ball leads off the next inning correct?

No. The BR put the ball into play which completes that player's turn at bat.

DeputyUICHousto Sun Oct 09, 2011 09:39pm

Nope
 
The runner that does the passing is the runner called out. The ball remains live. The batter has completed his/her turn at bat.

MD Longhorn Mon Oct 10, 2011 08:56am

No. You basically have 4 outs here. Batters PA was over.

Dakota Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jr131981 (Post 792398)
too lazy to look it up to verify...

And, I'm too lazy to answer. Nevermind that my wiseass answer takes just as much effort as a real answer, I like my wiseass answer better. Don't you? :D

jr131981 Mon Oct 10, 2011 06:58pm

thanks everyone, dakota wins the award for best answer, i knew there be at least one.

jr131981 Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:56am

follow up questions,

rule 8-1-a says the batter becomes a BR as soon as the batter legally hits a fair ball.

the relevant definition of a fair ball is subsection C) while on or over fair territory, touches the person, attached equiptment or clothing of a player or umpire.

rule 7-2-C says the first batter in each inning is the batter who follows the last player who completed their at bat in the previous inning.

is rule 8-1-a the relevant rule to invoke to determine which batter completed their turn at bat thus determines who leads off the following inning?

what if the batter hit a long foul ball and R1 is passed by R2 before the ball is caught?

what if the batter hit a long obviously out of play ball, R1 never moves, and R2 runs full speed on contact and passes R1 before the ball is out of play?

what if the batter hits a dribbler down the line, R2 passes R1 before the ball is touched or settles and the ball eventually becomes foul?

MD Longhorn Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:32pm

No. 8-1 is only half of the ways a batter ends their PA. Read 8-2 as well (this includes the caught fly ball (fair/foul not relevant on a caught fly ball).

On your obviously out of play ball (assuming you don't mean a home run), I think you'd best "decide" that the ball was out of play before the runner was passed. I think you could wiggle your way out of a protest if you ruled the other way, and be technically correct ... but I think we both know that is not the INTENT of that rule.

CecilOne Tue Oct 11, 2011 03:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbcrowder (Post 792787)
No. 8-1 is only half of the ways a batter ends their PA. Read 8-2 as well (this includes the caught fly ball (fair/foul not relevant on a caught fly ball).

On your obviously out of play ball (assuming you don't mean a home run), I think you'd best "decide" that the ball was out of play before the runner was passed. I think you could wiggle your way out of a protest if you ruled the other way, and be technically correct ... but I think we both know that is not the INTENT of that rule.

""decide" that the ball was out of play "
Predictive umpiring, is that the same as preventive umpiring?

Also, the bolded part is ambiguous to me.

IRISHMAFIA Tue Oct 11, 2011 07:56pm

If the batter did not become a batter-runner by putting the ball into play, how do you account for calling a runner out for passing another? It is not possible.

AtlUmpSteve Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jr131981 (Post 792775)
follow up questions,

rule 8-1-a says the batter becomes a BR as soon as the batter legally hits a fair ball.

the relevant definition of a fair ball is subsection C) while on or over fair territory, touches the person, attached equiptment or clothing of a player or umpire.

rule 7-2-C says the first batter in each inning is the batter who follows the last player who completed their at bat in the previous inning.

is rule 8-1-a the relevant rule to invoke to determine which batter completed their turn at bat thus determines who leads off the following inning?

what if the batter hit a long foul ball and R1 is passed by R2 before the ball is caught?

what if the batter hit a long obviously out of play ball, R1 never moves, and R2 runs full speed on contact and passes R1 before the ball is out of play?

what if the batter hits a dribbler down the line, R2 passes R1 before the ball is touched or settles and the ball eventually becomes foul?

OK. Don't all your questions have the same answer?? Or were they all rhetorical?

Without a fair batted ball, there are no running violations absent interference. No one has an obligation to run bases correctly when there is no obligation to run bases.

MD Longhorn Wed Oct 12, 2011 08:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve (Post 792899)
OK. Don't all your questions have the same answer?? Or were they all rhetorical?

Without a fair batted ball, there are no running violations absent interference. No one has an obligation to run bases correctly when there is no obligation to run bases.

True.

The only one he posted that was vaguely interesting was this:
what if the batter hits a dribbler down the line, R2 passes R1 before the ball is touched or settles and the ball eventually becomes foul?

Generally, with the ball in play and rolling on the ground, BU is watching the runners and is going to call an out the moment the passing occurs... but then when the ball rolls foul.... :eek:

BretMan Wed Oct 12, 2011 08:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 792868)
If the batter did not become a batter-runner by putting the ball into play, how do you account for calling a runner out for passing another? It is not possible.

How about slow pitch with stealing...and a really, really dumb trailing runner. :rolleyes:

MD Longhorn Wed Oct 12, 2011 08:32am

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 792868)
If the batter did not become a batter-runner by putting the ball into play, how do you account for calling a runner out for passing another? It is not possible.

Not sure what I'm missing here or what you really meant. Batter becoming a batter-runner has absolutely nothing to do with whether runners can run or not. Runners can move without the batter becoming BR unless you're in a non-stealing division.

DeputyUICHousto Wed Oct 12, 2011 08:47am

How?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mbcrowder (Post 792465)
No. You basically have 4 outs here. Batters PA was over.

When the batter/runner passed the runner at 1st base he was out. That's the third out. How did you get a fourth out? The caught fly ball no longer matters as you already have the third out.


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