Obstruction but with a twist.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Stop right here! Speaking ASA & ISF, this is the end of the story. You killed the play. You now have to rule. Solely by your definition, you have OBS. Award the runner home.

The following is irrelevant to the ruling.

I did award R1 HP for the obstruction, BUT, doesn't R1 (or her substitute, if she was unable to continue playing) still need to complete her base running duties?

MTD, Sr.

P.S. Therefore, I still want to entertain a discussion per NFHS, NCAA, ASA, ISF, and USSSA rules.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I did award R1 HP for the obstruction, BUT, doesn't R1 (or her substitute, if she was unable to continue playing) still need to complete her base running duties?...NFHS, ... ASA,...and USSSA rules.

Yes. The key to whether you did this correctly, in my mind, is whether R1 abandoned or merely missed the base. If she was "just inches" from the base, then I'm good with ruling she missed the base, and therefore the defense must appeal.

OTOH, if she abandoned her base and entered the dugout, you have an out. As you describe the play, I would have ruled it a missed base, as you did, requiring an appeal.

[CelticNHBlue]

Agree with Mike, once you call Time, it's over. My assumption is that you called time because players were potentially injured and required immediate attention, in your judgement. If so, all runners are awarded bases you judge they would have attained without your killing the play. In this case, I am going to make sure, once the 'medical' treatment is complete that the coach and runners are aware that they have been awarded specific bases (hint, hint) and not just let them leave. There was, after all, a more important issue at hand (particularly at this age group), as you have judged by calling Time.

As to ruling obstruction, the only difference I can see in NCAA is the about to receive clause that could negate obstruction if the timing of the play was appropriate. Can't speak to ISF (yet).

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by CelticNHBlue

As to ruling obstruction, the only difference I can see in NCAA is the about to receive clause that could negate obstruction if the timing of the play was appropriate. Can't speak to ISF (yet).

ISF rule requires possession; it was the first major rule set to do so, and ASA (then NFHS) used that as the basis to change their rules.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I did award R1 HP for the obstruction, BUT, doesn't R1 (or her substitute, if she was unable to continue playing) still need to complete her base running duties?

Okay, I did cut that short, but I would consider that as subsequent play and not relevant until the offended team takes action. You could call her out for a properly appealed missed base, but not abandonment.

Just a question. Did you announce the award of home?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Okay, I did cut that short, but I would consider that as subsequent play and not relevant until the offended team takes action. You could call her out for a properly appealed missed base, but not abandonment.

Just a question. Did you announce the award of home?

No I did not because the train wreck was such a bang bang play and my first instinct was to call time so that the players could be attended to. Everybody heard me call out "That's Obstruction!" and everybody saw that F2 never caught the ball. Therefore, no one questioned the fact that R1 never touched HP. I don't know what the coaches from either team were thinking but F2's HC never questioned the Obstruciton call. So I guess everybody was happy that neither player was hurt and lets play on was everybody attitude.

MTD, Sr.

[MrRabbit]

If this is ASA rule set I have a question?
When did they change the call for Obstruction?
You said you called out that is obstruction, but you said F2 did not catch the ball.
Isn't that DDB until she is put out or she reaches the base and is safe?

[Andy]

Originally Posted by MrRabbit

If this is ASA rule set I have a question?
When did they change the call for Obstruction?
You said you called out that is obstruction, but you said F2 did not catch the ball.
Isn't that DDB until she is put out or she reaches the base and is safe?

Obstruction is a delayed dead ball. The DDB signal is used by extending your left arm straight out to the side with a closed fist.

I teach that the verbal is optional, but if you choose to use a verbal, it should be said in a normal voice so that any players in the immediate area can hear you, not to use a loud voice to call OBSTRUCTION, THAT'S OBSTRUCTION!. Usually, when an umpire starts yelling out a call, players tend to stop playing, especially at the 12u level. The DDB requires that we let the play complete, then make a ruling, if needed.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Andy

Obstruction is a delayed dead ball. The DDB signal is used by extending your left arm straight out to the side with a closed fist.

I teach that the verbal is optional, but if you choose to use a verbal, it should be said in a normal voice so that any players in the immediate area can hear you, not to use a loud voice to call OBSTRUCTION, THAT'S OBSTRUCTION!. Usually, when an umpire starts yelling out a call, players tend to stop playing, especially at the 12u level. The DDB requires that we let the play complete, then make a ruling, if needed.

I think MrRabbit got that part; what I get from his question is that the runner was not put out, nor reached the base safely. So, he questions why a dead ball as a result of the obstruction.

What I get from the OP isn't that the dead ball resulted from the obstruction, but that the umpire killed the play due to the collision, and concern for the safety of the players (ASA 10.4-G). So, nothing changed from proper mechanics; but you HTBT to judge for yourself if the dead ball was necessary.

In championship play (and in the older ages, mind you), the literal interpretation of 10.4-G ("requires immediate attention") is less involved in if Suzy is hurt than if Suzy's injury will be worse if ignored for just a few more seconds while the play plays out. At 12U and not a National, I tend to support the former more than the latter.

Edit to add:

As to other rule sets, I would disagree with calling "Time" in NCAA, ISF, and NFHS in this play, as I would in ASA championship play; the verbiage used in those rule sets spell out more clearly that the play must remain live unless greater injury would result from continuing play. I would claim zero knowledge about U-trip.

[tcannizzo]

Is Suzy hurt bad? or Does it just hurt bad.