Obstruction but with a twist.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

MTD, Jr., Daryl "The Preacher" H. Long, and I umpired in an ASA girls' fastpitch tournament this weekend and Daryl and I had an unusual play in one game where I was the PU and Daryl was the BU. I will try to describe it in great detail so as to minimize any HTBTs. The game was a 12U age group. Here goes:

PLAY: Runner on 1B (R1) with one out. B3 rips, a line drive into right-center field for a base hit. R1 is off on contact, passes (maked contact with the bag) 2B, and heads for 3B. The 3B coach gives her the windmill to head for HP. R1 is running straight down the 3B Foul Line toward HP.

Now lets talk about F2. Picture a line that is parallel to the 1B FL and it intersects the 3B FL about two feet on the 3B side of HP. F2 is standing on this line just inside the 3B FL waiting for a possible relay throw; at this point she is not obstructing R1. (Right now all of the basketball officials reading this post should be thinking about Time and Distance when setting a screen against a moving opponent.)

The relay throw is high and F2 leaps up and back toward the 3B FL. As F2 leaps back R1 runs into F2 as the ball glances off of F2's glove. When the contact occured I called out: "That's Obstruction!" and by then R1 and F2 were on the ground, writhing in pain (I am not exagerating, because I was feeling the pain too.). F2 lands on top of HP and R1 lands just inches short short of HP. I now called out "Time!" and coaches from both teams came out to attend to F2 and R1. Remember R1 had not touched HP and I had never signaled her safe because she never touched or even crossed HP.

After a few minutes, both players got up and play resumed with neither player leaving the game. R1 walked into her dugout under her own power; both team's scorers marked down a run scored by R1; and B4 entered the Batter's Box and the game resumed. The Defense did not appeal R1 never touching HP, B4 took her cuts at the plate, and we finished the game.

As I stated at the beginning this tournament was being played under ASA rules. But I would like to entertain a discussion not only under ASA rules, but NFHS, NCAA, USSSA, and for our esteemed members who have had the honor of working a game under ISF rules as to if we handled this play correctly, and if not how could we have done it differently.

This was tournament was the last umpiring (both baseball and softball) of the summer for the three of us, so it is time to put the gear away and get ready for next year.

MTD, Sr.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

MTD, Jr., Daryl "The Preacher" H. Long, and I umpired in an ASA girls' fastpitch tournament this weekend and Daryl and I had an unusual play in one game where I was the PU and Daryl was the BU. I will try to describe it in great detail so as to minimize any HTBTs. The game was a 12U age group. Here goes:

PLAY: Runner on 1B (R1) with one out. B3 rips, a line drive into right-center field for a base hit. R1 is off on contact, passes (maked contact with the bag) 2B, and heads for 3B. The 3B coach gives her the windmill to head for HP. R1 is running straight down the 3B Foul Line toward HP.

Now lets talk about F2. Picture a line that is parallel to the 1B FL and it intersects the 3B FL about two feet on the 3B side of HP. F2 is standing on this line just inside the 3B FL waiting for a possible relay throw; at this point she is not obstructing R1. (Right now all of the basketball officials reading this post should be thinking about Time and Distance when setting a screen against a moving opponent.)

The relay throw is high and F2 leaps up and back toward the 3B FL. As F2 leaps back R1 runs into F2 as the ball glances off of F2's glove. When the contact occured I called out: "That's Obstruction!" and by then R1 and F2 were on the ground, writhing in pain (I am not exagerating, because I was feeling the pain too.). F2 lands on top of HP and R1 lands just inches short short of HP. I now called out "Time!"

Stop right here! Speaking ASA & ISF, this is the end of the story. You killed the play. You now have to rule. Solely by your definition, you have OBS. Award the runner home.

The following is irrelevant to the ruling.

and coaches from both teams came out to attend to F2 and R1. Remember R1 had not touched HP and I had never signaled her safe because she never touched or even crossed HP.

After a few minutes, both players got up and play resumed with neither player leaving the game. R1 walked into her dugout under her own power; both team's scorers marked down a run scored by R1; and B4 entered the Batter's Box and the game resumed. The Defense did not appeal R1 never touching HP, B4 took her cuts at the plate, and we finished the game.

As I stated at the beginning this tournament was being played under ASA rules. But I would like to entertain a discussion not only under ASA rules, but NFHS, NCAA, USSSA, and for our esteemed members who have had the honor of working a game under ISF rules as to if we handled this play correctly, and if not how could we have done it differently.

This was tournament was the last umpiring (both baseball and softball) of the summer for the three of us, so it is time to put the gear away and get ready for next year.

MTD, Sr.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Stop right here! Speaking ASA & ISF, this is the end of the story. You killed the play. You now have to rule. Solely by your definition, you have OBS. Award the runner home.

The following is irrelevant to the ruling.

I did award R1 HP for the obstruction, BUT, doesn't R1 (or her substitute, if she was unable to continue playing) still need to complete her base running duties?

MTD, Sr.

P.S. Therefore, I still want to entertain a discussion per NFHS, NCAA, ASA, ISF, and USSSA rules.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I did award R1 HP for the obstruction, BUT, doesn't R1 (or her substitute, if she was unable to continue playing) still need to complete her base running duties?...NFHS, ... ASA,...and USSSA rules.

Yes. The key to whether you did this correctly, in my mind, is whether R1 abandoned or merely missed the base. If she was "just inches" from the base, then I'm good with ruling she missed the base, and therefore the defense must appeal.

OTOH, if she abandoned her base and entered the dugout, you have an out. As you describe the play, I would have ruled it a missed base, as you did, requiring an appeal.

[CelticNHBlue]

Agree with Mike, once you call Time, it's over. My assumption is that you called time because players were potentially injured and required immediate attention, in your judgement. If so, all runners are awarded bases you judge they would have attained without your killing the play. In this case, I am going to make sure, once the 'medical' treatment is complete that the coach and runners are aware that they have been awarded specific bases (hint, hint) and not just let them leave. There was, after all, a more important issue at hand (particularly at this age group), as you have judged by calling Time.

As to ruling obstruction, the only difference I can see in NCAA is the about to receive clause that could negate obstruction if the timing of the play was appropriate. Can't speak to ISF (yet).

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by CelticNHBlue

As to ruling obstruction, the only difference I can see in NCAA is the about to receive clause that could negate obstruction if the timing of the play was appropriate. Can't speak to ISF (yet).

ISF rule requires possession; it was the first major rule set to do so, and ASA (then NFHS) used that as the basis to change their rules.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I did award R1 HP for the obstruction, BUT, doesn't R1 (or her substitute, if she was unable to continue playing) still need to complete her base running duties?

Okay, I did cut that short, but I would consider that as subsequent play and not relevant until the offended team takes action. You could call her out for a properly appealed missed base, but not abandonment.

Just a question. Did you announce the award of home?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Okay, I did cut that short, but I would consider that as subsequent play and not relevant until the offended team takes action. You could call her out for a properly appealed missed base, but not abandonment.

Just a question. Did you announce the award of home?

No I did not because the train wreck was such a bang bang play and my first instinct was to call time so that the players could be attended to. Everybody heard me call out "That's Obstruction!" and everybody saw that F2 never caught the ball. Therefore, no one questioned the fact that R1 never touched HP. I don't know what the coaches from either team were thinking but F2's HC never questioned the Obstruciton call. So I guess everybody was happy that neither player was hurt and lets play on was everybody attitude.

MTD, Sr.

[MrRabbit]

If this is ASA rule set I have a question?
When did they change the call for Obstruction?
You said you called out that is obstruction, but you said F2 did not catch the ball.
Isn't that DDB until she is put out or she reaches the base and is safe?

[Andy]

Originally Posted by MrRabbit

If this is ASA rule set I have a question?
When did they change the call for Obstruction?
You said you called out that is obstruction, but you said F2 did not catch the ball.
Isn't that DDB until she is put out or she reaches the base and is safe?

Obstruction is a delayed dead ball. The DDB signal is used by extending your left arm straight out to the side with a closed fist.

I teach that the verbal is optional, but if you choose to use a verbal, it should be said in a normal voice so that any players in the immediate area can hear you, not to use a loud voice to call OBSTRUCTION, THAT'S OBSTRUCTION!. Usually, when an umpire starts yelling out a call, players tend to stop playing, especially at the 12u level. The DDB requires that we let the play complete, then make a ruling, if needed.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Andy

Obstruction is a delayed dead ball. The DDB signal is used by extending your left arm straight out to the side with a closed fist.

I teach that the verbal is optional, but if you choose to use a verbal, it should be said in a normal voice so that any players in the immediate area can hear you, not to use a loud voice to call OBSTRUCTION, THAT'S OBSTRUCTION!. Usually, when an umpire starts yelling out a call, players tend to stop playing, especially at the 12u level. The DDB requires that we let the play complete, then make a ruling, if needed.

I think MrRabbit got that part; what I get from his question is that the runner was not put out, nor reached the base safely. So, he questions why a dead ball as a result of the obstruction.

What I get from the OP isn't that the dead ball resulted from the obstruction, but that the umpire killed the play due to the collision, and concern for the safety of the players (ASA 10.4-G). So, nothing changed from proper mechanics; but you HTBT to judge for yourself if the dead ball was necessary.

In championship play (and in the older ages, mind you), the literal interpretation of 10.4-G ("requires immediate attention") is less involved in if Suzy is hurt than if Suzy's injury will be worse if ignored for just a few more seconds while the play plays out. At 12U and not a National, I tend to support the former more than the latter.

Edit to add:

As to other rule sets, I would disagree with calling "Time" in NCAA, ISF, and NFHS in this play, as I would in ASA championship play; the verbiage used in those rule sets spell out more clearly that the play must remain live unless greater injury would result from continuing play. I would claim zero knowledge about U-trip.

[tcannizzo]

Is Suzy hurt bad? or Does it just hurt bad.

[MD Longhorn]

Unless I see bone/blood - or there is a following runner that could run into a downed player and increase the injury, play on.

As to the OP, I believe the only thing I'd have handled differently is making sure the runner hears you award her home. Touching it is her responsibility, but you have 2 reasons for the award here - both the OBS and killing the play. It's important that you give the runner at least a little indication that she still has baserunning duties.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

After a few minutes, both players got up and play resumed with neither player leaving the game. R1 walked into her dugout under her own power;

I would submit that any "injury" where both players got up and neither left the game wouldn't meet the definition of:

ASA 10.4-G "when a player becomes injured and in the umpire's judgment requires immediate attention".

NFHS 5-2-1-d "injury occurs during a live ball, then time shall not be called until no further advance or putout is possible. Note: If necessary, the umpire may suspend play immediately if .... further play may cause injury or jeopardize a participant's safety.

NCAA 15.10.2.3 "An umpire shall not temporarily suspend play .... in case of injury until all plays in progress have been completed or each runner has been held at her base. Exception: When necessary to protect an injured player ...".

ISF 10.8-f "In case of injury, except in the umpires' judgment with a serious injury which may put the player in danger, "TIME" shall not be called until all plays in progress have been completed, or runners have been held at their bases."

So, the hard and party line, this almost assuredly didn't meet the criteria to kill the play. And, in NCAA, at least, and most upper level ASA Nationals, you would be challenged if you suspended play on this play. But, our society has led us to believe we should call "Time" when Suzy is hurt at all. But the rules don't tell us to stop if we don't know, only to stop if, in our (sole!!) judgment, further play would 1) cause more injury, 2) jeopardize safety, 3) player requires protection, 4) player is in danger, or 5) player needs immediate attention. No one set of rules says stop any time Suzy is hurt.

You can be sued if Suzy is hurt badly, whether you stopped play or not; and the likelihood is the same, based on the intent of the lawyers involved, not on if you stopped the game, or even the extent of the injury. Since you are following the rules as spelled out, there is no added liability for not stopping the game, and your "judgment" is considered fairly immune in a court of law; to get added damages, a plaintiff would have to prove you KNEW it was a serious injury, you KNEW if you delayed a few seconds the injury would be worse, and you STILL chose to disregard that knowledge. That is gross negligence (the time your umpire insurance stops covering you) as opposed to negligence (for which you ARE covered); you not being a medical professional capable of KNOWING makes you immune from the "but how did you know, you should have stopped it just because you didn't know" arguments.

So, based on societal expectations, the stoppage is defensible, and probably expected; by the rules, play on until all play has ended.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I want to reiterate why I stopped play. R1 was running as hard as she could along the 3B FL toward HP when the contact between R1 and F2 occured. The collision a TRAIN WRECK!! And both players went to the ground writhing in pain. Both players needed "immediate attention" as stated in ASA 10.4-G. Granted some will take HTBT position but believe me when I say, play needed to be stopped immediately. Either player or both players could have suffered serious injuries from the collision and it was just dumb luck that neither one did. The possible injuries could have been: broken ribs (think punctured lung), broken collar bone, broken arm, whip lash, and concussion come to mind.

MTD, Sr.