Obstruction but with a twist.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by jr131981

IMO, mind you this is based on nothing more than MY interpretation of the rules, if you announce an the runner is awarded home and they dont touch home, i dont see how its not abandonment. did the runner make an attempt to touch home? no, did the runner go to/stay in the dugout? yes. unless im missing something, why is that not abandonment?

Re-read the rule that actually uses the word abandonment ... can you apply that rule during a dead ball? An awarded base is done during a dead ball. If the runner fails to do their baserunning duties, the defense must appeal to get an out.

[jr131981]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Re-read the rule that actually uses the word abandonment ... can you apply that rule during a dead ball? An awarded base is done during a dead ball. If the runner fails to do their baserunning duties, the defense must appeal to get an out.

rule 8: the batter runner and runner
section 7: the runner is out
part u: when a runner abandons a base and enters the team area or leaves live ball territory.

i see nothing regarding live ball or dead ball

help me understand how the OPs scenario is different than youngumps from post 26

Runner at third, catch and carry situation. Dead ball, you've got home. [runner] Goes straight to the dugout

[youngump]

Originally Posted by jr131981

rule 8: the batter runner and runner
section 7: the runner is out
part u: when a runner abandons a base and enters the team area or leaves live ball territory.

i see nothing regarding live ball or dead ball

help me understand how the OPs scenario is different than youngumps from post 26

Notice, that my post is not abandonment. I was asking if it might be a situation where we didn't need an appeal. Steve who you should listen to answered my question there. So they don't actually need to show a difference to get a different ruling because the ruling is the same.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by jr131981

help me understand how the OPs scenario is different than youngumps from post 26

It's not. Neither is it abandonment.

[jr131981]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

It's not. Neither is it abandonment.

ok...

help me understand what the abandonment rule is bc i dont see how youngumps scenario, runner on 3rd, catch and carry, runner is awarded home but simply walks into the 3B dugout instead of running to home plate is not abandonment.

im not sure if im using an improper definition of abandonment or am envisioning something different in my head.

thanks

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by jr131981

ok...

help me understand what the abandonment rule is bc i dont see how youngumps scenario, runner on 3rd, catch and carry, runner is awarded home but simply walks into the 3B dugout instead of running to home plate is not abandonment.

im not sure if im using an improper definition of abandonment or am envisioning something different in my head.

thanks

Try reading post #26 in this thread.

[jr131981]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Try reading post #26 in this thread.

post 26 doesnt exactly give the definition of abandonment

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by jr131981

post 26 doesnt exactly give the definition of abandonment

Nor does Rule #1. A BR/R is never out for abandonment. They are out for entering DBT during a live ball. Period. That is it. It is all that an ASA umpire should take into consideration in ruling a runner out for what you call "abandonment".

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by jr131981

post 26 doesnt exactly give the definition of abandonment

You are right, it was late at night.

Try post #27.

[jr131981]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Nor does Rule #1. A BR/R is never out for abandonment. They are out for entering DBT during a live ball. Period. That is it. It is all that an ASA umpire should take into consideration in ruling a runner out for what you call "abandonment".

im not the one calling it abandonment, the ASA rule 8-7-U is the one calling it abandonment. the rule makes no mention of it has to be a live ball.

let me try a different example. runner on 2nd, catch and carry, you award the runner 3rd base, but the runner for whatever reason, goes to their dugout instead. IMO, there are 3 possible scenarios. runner is out for abandonment, the defense appeals (i guess 3B) before the next pitch, or the defense does not appeal and you count the run.

clearly me definition of "abandons a base" is different than the rest of yours, im just trying to figure out why.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by jr131981

im not the one calling it abandonment, the ASA rule 8-7-U is the one calling it abandonment. the rule makes no mention of it has to be a live ball.

let me try a different example. runner on 2nd, catch and carry, you award the runner 3rd base, but the runner for whatever reason, goes to their dugout instead. IMO, there are 3 possible scenarios. runner is out for abandonment, the defense appeals (i guess 3B) before the next pitch, or the defense does not appeal and you count the run.

clearly me definition of "abandons a base" is different than the rest of yours, im just trying to figure out why.

Can anything happen when the status of the ball is dead?

Assume you called time to work a lineup change, and the runner on 3B goes into her dugout during this time to get her ponytail holder. Gonna call her out for abandonment?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

You are right, it was late at night.

Try post #27.

No ... it moved.

[jr131981]

Originally Posted by SRW

Can anything happen when the status of the ball is dead?

Assume you called time to work a lineup change, and the runner on 3B goes into her dugout during this time to get her ponytail holder. Gonna call her out for abandonment?

i see your point,

now what if its SP, and the runner stays in the dugout, and the ball is put back in play (and the defense doesnt appeal) are you going to count the run?

we can go back and forth on this scenarios, but what i really need is a the definition of "abandons a base" as per 8-7-U

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by jr131981

i see your point,

now what if its SP, and the runner stays in the dugout, and the ball is put back in play (and the defense doesnt appeal) are you going to count the run?

we can go back and forth on this scenarios, but what i really need is a the definition of "abandons a base" as per 8-7-U

You know, you can hang your hat on this, but the word "abandon" is a matter of the need of a word from the English language, but it is not a defined violation. The violation is for leaving LBT while the ball is live. And it must be a live ball.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

You know, you can hang your hat on this, but the word "abandon" is a matter of the need of a word from the English language, but it is not a defined violation. The violation is for leaving LBT while the ball is live. And it must be a live ball.

Runner or Batter/Runner " leaving LBT while the ball is live."

(not a Batter)