batting out of order...or ....

[LIUmp]

ASA rules, though I don't think it matters.

Here's the sit - I am going to refer to the batters by name here as who they are in the lineup card - forgive me if this is different than what is the accepted way, but I don't know how else to describe it and the lineup will matter. I'm sure someone will fix my error anyway.



Lead off batter, B9, grounds out. (1 out)

Second batter in the inning, B1, walks.

Third batter, B2, fouls out to F3, (2 out) and F3 carries the ball to dead ball territory. PU signals and says out and dead ball, PU and BU say "dead ball, that's a catch and carry" and award runner second. (yes she does tag up properly after the award).

Next batter in the inning SHOULD BE B3. However, for some reason, B2 stays at the plate. (She states that she didn't know she was out). She hits the next pitch to first for the ground out. (3 outs)

Now the DC argues that the batter batted out of order. The OC didn't know that she was the same batter and got up again.

We go to the next inning and now want to put the correct batter up to the plate.

Who is that?



This was the way I had to end my season today. (I was BU). I'll tell you that my partner and I didn't agree on the correct ruling and that one of the coaches threatened a protest if we ruled the incorrect batter to the plate.

We finally came up with our ruling (B4 is now up) but I'd like to know if we were right. (No protest was filed).

[TwoBits]

Assuming defensive coach makes his appeal in time (before infielders cross foul lines, perhaps?) then B4 leads off next inning.

[LIUmp]

My partner argued that because B2 batted and got out, that B3 would be up. I said that B2 batted for B3 by batting again and now we go to B4, the next correct batter in the lineup.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by LIBlueASA

My partner argued that because B2 batted and got out, that B3 would be up. I said that B2 batted for B3 by batting again and now we go to B4, the next correct batter in the lineup.

I agree with your assessment. B3 would be declared out, and B4 is the next batter.

Though the PU sure screwed the pooch by not noticing B2 batting after being declared out.

[LIUmp]

To clear up some .. here's how it was discovered.

There were a few lengthy delays throughout this inning. Switching the ball because it was wet after the lead off ground out.....two defensive conferences. After the catch and carry, I must not have advanced the number of outs on my indicator to 2. And neither did my partner, because once I arrived in the C position, he flashed 1 out to me. The DC knew there were 3 outs after B2 grounded out. But after the ground out for the 3rd out, it was the OC who thought he was jipped. He argued that there were only two outs and he didn't know that the foul out was an out. (I don't know how). NO ONE noticed that the B2 got up again. OC says she only grounded out, to which DC said yes and she also fouled out. She batted twice. My partner said, "yes she batted twice and we now have 4 outs." (DOH!). DC says she shouldn't have batted, and it should have been B3. OC is MAD that PU wasn't paying attention and let her bat again. PU says, I didn't realize it until she was running to first on the groundout.

We think that's the end of that, but I realize that when they bat again, we will have the same issue because who will lead off????

Now the next time they come up my partner tells him that his number 3 batter is up, because the number 2 batter made last out. DC comes out and says it should be B4 up. PU calls me in and then goes to get rule book. I ask to see scorebooks. I wait for partner and hear him out as he tries to say that we have to put B3 up because B2 made last out. I say no, as B2 batted and fouled out and then B2 batted (for B3) and grounded out.

The DC said that if B3 batted, he would protest the game. I was pretty sure that the correct batter was to be B4. In this third out situation, was I wrong? The BOO was brought up, but it was also stated that it didn't matter as there were already three outs.

[RKBUmp]

In a batting out of order situation, it is not the wrong batter that is called out, it is the batter who should have batted who is out. In your situation, B3 should have been the batter, but B2 batted in her place. B3 is out on the appeal, B4 is your lead off batter the next inning.

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

In a batting out of order situation, it is not the wrong batter that is called out, it is the batter who should have batted who is out. In your situation, B3 should have been the batter, but B2 batted in her place. B3 is out on the appeal, B4 is your lead off batter the next inning.

What he said.

[BretMan]

After a succsessful bating out of order appeal, the next correct batter is the one whose name immediately follows the batter who was called out for failing to bat.

In your scenario...

- B3 (who should have been the proper batter) is called for failing to bat.

- B4 is the next proper batter.

"OC is MAD that PU wasn't paying attention and let her bat again."

OC was asleep at the wheel and wants to blame it on the umpires.

[LIUmp]

I know that when BOO occurs, the next correct batter is the one whose name immediately follows the batter who was called out for failing to bat. My question is, that in my scenario, no one was called out for failing to bat. We had 3 outs in the inning - then the DC said there was BOO.

So, in this case, when you already have 3 outs, and BOO is discovered, the next inning we put up the batter who's turn it should be had there NOT been BOO? Even though we didn't get an out for BOO?

B4 bats...correct?

Sorry if I'm making this confusing, I just want to make sure I understand this specific situation.

My partner's argument was that once B2 took a pitch on her incorrect at bat, she became the correct batter and it's too late to do anything about it and that the lineup "resets" from that point on. I maintained that no matter how many outs there were, the next batter that should come up at this point is B4, because B3 failed to bat.

[JEL]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I agree with your assessment. B3 would be declared out, and B4 is the next batter.

Though the PU sure screwed the pooch by not noticing B2 batting after being declared out.

If you were to notice the improper batter is at the plate, what would you do?

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by JEL

If you were to notice the improper batter is at the plate, what would you do?

Nothing.... BOO is an appeal that must be brought to the umpires attention by the coach.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by JEL

If you were to notice the improper batter is at the plate, what would you do?

Without having read the entire clarification, I would've just stated, "batter, you were out." The next batter would've stepped up to the plate.

It happens a lot with kids and rec SP.

[marvin]

Originally Posted by LIBlueASA

. . . .

Now the DC argues that the batter batted out of order.

. . . .

NFHS ( I don't do ASA)

This is a BOO appeal. If made properly (before the next pitch, legal or illegal or before the infielders have left the field) and if the wrong player batted you uphold the appeal.

Sounds like in your situation the defense appealed at the right time, this nullifies the improper batters turn at bat and the player who did not bat is out, so B4 would be the correct batter to start the next inning.

If a pitch had been thrown to another batter (or if the infielders had left the field) after B2's improper turn at bat was completed then B2's turn at bat would become legal and B3 would be the proper batter to bat next. This may be where your partner is confused. It is a pitch to the batter following improper batter (or the infielders leaving the field) that legitimizes the improper batters turn at bat, not a pitch to the improper batter.

If the appela was made properly it sounds like you had BOO and B4 is the correct batter.

[argodad]

Originally Posted by marvin

... B$ is the correct batter.

I think B$ is professional baseball terminology.

[PSUchem]

Originally Posted by LIBlueASA

(snip) In this third out situation, was I wrong? The BOO was brought up, but it was also stated that it didn't matter as there were already three outs.

Everyone is forgetting a very important detail. The groundout by the improper batter was the third out of the inning. In ASA, thou shalt not call a fourth out unless it is an appeal on a runner who has scored. Unlike NCAA, there is no stipulation for allowing an appeal on BOO as a fourth out. Without being able to appeal, B2's second at-bat must stand, and B3 will lead off next inning.

This is a major loophole in the ASA rules, and I have brought it to the attention of numerous "higher-ups," with no clear answer.

Situation #2: 2 outs, B6 is due up to bat. Instead, B9 comes to bat and grounds out. 3 outs. Without being able to appeal, B9's at-bat is legal. B1 leads off next inning. You have just effectively skipped the bottom of the order.