Batting out of order

[Hoosier_Dave]

Just to make sure I understand the rule correctly.

1. Bases loaded, no outs. B5 gets a single, R1 scores. With B5 on first and before next pitch, coach says B4 should have batted. Ruling. B4 is out; runners back to original bases; B5 will bat again since she's the next one after the batter who was called out and B5 didn't get out.

2. Bases loaded, no outs. B6 gets a single and R1 scores. With B6 on 1B, coach again says B4 should have batted. Ruling. B4 is out; runners back; B5 bats, B6 is pulled off 1B and is now on deck because she is next in the proper order after B5.

3. Bases empty, no outs. B3 gets a single. Coach says B1 should have batted. B1 is out. Does B3 stay on 1B? Common sense says that B3 should come off 1B otherwise you're rewarding B3 for batting out of order.

4. Same as 3 above but B3 strikes out. In this case, B3's strike out stands, B1 is called out. So we have 2 outs, B2 up to bat, B3 on deck.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Hoosier_Dave

Just to make sure I understand the rule correctly.

1. Bases loaded, no outs. B5 gets a single, R1 scores. With B5 on first and before next pitch, coach says B4 should have batted. Ruling. B4 is out; runners back to original bases; B5 will bat again since she's the next one after the batter who was called out and B5 didn't get out.

Speaking ASA is all of this, correct.

Originally Posted by Hoosier_Dave

2. Bases loaded, no outs. B6 gets a single and R1 scores. With B6 on 1B, coach again says B4 should have batted. Ruling. B4 is out; runners back; B5 bats, B6 is pulled off 1B and is now on deck because she is next in the proper order after B5.

Again, correct.

Originally Posted by Hoosier_Dave

3. Bases empty, no outs. B3 gets a single. Coach says B1 should have batted. B1 is out. Does B3 stay on 1B? Common sense says that B3 should come off 1B otherwise you're rewarding B3 for batting out of order.

No advance of any runner caused by the improper batter becoming a BR is allowed to stand, so, no, B3 does not stay on base.

Originally Posted by Hoosier_Dave

4. Same as 3 above but B3 strikes out. In this case, B3's strike out stands, B1 is called out. So we have 2 outs, B2 up to bat, B3 on deck.

Correct.

[CecilOne]

In (2) and (3), the effect on B6 and B3 respectively, is the same.

[tcblue13]

Originally Posted by Hoosier_Dave

Just to make sure I understand the rule correctly.

1. Bases loaded, no outs. B5 gets a single, R1 scores. With B5 on first and before next pitch, coach says B4 should have batted. Ruling. B4 is out; runners back to original bases; B5 will bat again since she's the next one after the batter who was called out and B5 didn't get out.

2. Bases loaded, no outs. B6 gets a single and R1 scores. With B6 on 1B, coach again says B4 should have batted. Ruling. B4 is out; runners back; B5 bats, B6 is pulled off 1B and is now on deck because she is next in the proper order after B5.

3. Bases empty, no outs. B3 gets a single. Coach says B1 should have batted. B1 is out. Does B3 stay on 1B? Common sense says that B3 should come off 1B otherwise you're rewarding B3 for batting out of order.

4. Same as 3 above but B3 strikes out. In this case, B3's strike out stands, B1 is called out. So we have 2 outs, B2 up to bat, B3 on deck.

Isn't this similar to the play that Mike outlined for the one pitch triple play.

ITB
R1 on 2B
B2 hits first pitch line drive to F4 who steps on 2B DP
D coach appeals BOO on B1 who is subsequently ruled out
Triple Play - One pitch

Now that is cool

[Steve M]

TC -
"Isn't this similar to the play that Mike outlined for the one pitch triple play.

ITB
R1 on 2B
B2 hits first pitch line drive to F4 who steps on 2B DP
D coach appeals BOO on B1 who is subsequently ruled out
Triple Play - One pitch

Now that is cool"

Since we all drool over the 3 pitch half inning,
How 'bout a 2 pitch half inning
B1 gets a single on 1st pitch.
B3 hits into double play on 1st pitch.
Defense appeals BOO. B2 out, all outs earned are still out, so half inning is over - except for Fed.
I'm just waiting for this one to happen in one of my games........

[argodad]

Originally Posted by Steve M

TC -
"Since we all drool over the 3 pitch half inning,
How 'bout a 2 pitch half inning
B1 gets a single on 1st pitch.
B3 hits into double play on 1st pitch.
Defense appeals BOO. B2 out, all outs earned are still out, so half inning is over - except for Fed.
I'm just waiting for this one to happen in one of my games........

It could only be in ASA. Fed and NCAA won't let you get that many outs on one BOO. (But I'll take as many as I can get.)

When the first batter of an inning makes an out on the first pitch, I tell the catcher that if she gets 3 outs on 3 pitches that I'll buy her a pack of Skittles. I've bought a few over the years -- including once in a college game.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by argodad

It could only be in ASA. Fed and NCAA won't let you get that many outs on one BOO. (But I'll take as many as I can get.)

And I still cannot figure that out. Why do these organizations insist on penalizing the efforts of the defense because of an offense violation?

And "that's the real way" or "that's the way it's always been" are not acceptable arguments.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by argodad

Fed and NCAA won't let you get that many outs on one BOO.

OK, maybe I have my filter on again. Why not?

NF 7.1.2 Effect: The umpire shall declare the batter who should have batted out. Any other outs on the play stand . . .

[AtlUmpSteve]

On Mike's particular play quoted above, ASA has 3 outs; the two on the play, and the BOO. B4 leads off next inning. In NFHS, there would be two outs only, as the improper batter is not out, simply removed and that out is replaced by the BOO. The key word in the effect is "other"; any "other" runners put out remain out, but the improper batter is simply erased by the BOO. R1 out on the play, B2 out on BOO, and B3 bats again.

Of course, in NCAA, if coach appeals, the entire at-bat is a do-over with just the BOO; here's an instance where the defense is better served to ignore the offense and keep the double play. If they appeal, R1 back to 1B, B2 out on BOO, B3 bats again. If no appeal, play stands, R1 & B3 out on the play, and B4 is the proper batter.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

On Mike's particular play quoted above, ASA has 3 outs; the two on the play, and the BOO. B4 leads off next inning. In NFHS, there would be two outs only, as the improper batter is not out, simply removed and that out is replaced by the BOO. The key word in the effect is "other"; any "other" runners put out remain out, but the improper batter is simply erased by the BOO. R1 out on the play, B2 out on BOO, and B3 bats again.

Of course, in NCAA, if coach appeals, the entire at-bat is a do-over with just the BOO; here's an instance where the defense is better served to ignore the offense and keep the double play. If they appeal, R1 back to 1B, B2 out on BOO, B3 bats again. If no appeal, play stands, R1 & B3 out on the play, and B4 is the proper batter.

Steve, as I read the rule I disagree with you. It says that the proper batter is out and all other outs stand. I don't see how you can do anything but get 3 outs. I'm going to read it yet again tonight - but from what I read I'm getting 3 outs in Fed.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Larry, I would have agreed, too, until I read 2006 Casebook play 7.1.2 Sit H. I am skipping unneeded words. Page 43. By the asterisk, it is a new or revised ruling.

B1 is due up but B2 bats instead. B2 hits a ground ball, and a) is safe at first, or b) thrown out at first. Defense properly appeals before next pitch. RULING: In both (a) & (b), B1 is out and B2's at-bat nullified. In (a), B2 is removed from base. In both (a) & (b), B2 is now the proper batter and bats again with one out and no runners.

Again, ASA would have same ruling in (a), but 2 outs and B3 batting in (b). That's the difference; it doesn't matter in NFHS if you get the batter out, just if you get OTHER runners out.