Ball rotation

[okla21fan]

I follow standard ball rotation procedures in NFHS and ASA Championship play but rarely follow it in league play and 'local' ASA tournaments (mainly because the UIC tells us not to)

My question is, what are the pros and con of ball rotation and why do we still use it? (I remember back in the 80s in some men's fastpitch where each team supplied their own balls, there was a need for ball rotation, but today with most tournaments and high school home team supplying balls usually the same brand and such, I am not understanding the reasoning behind it)

When I do enforce ball rotation even at the HS level, I receive much push back from teams and even some partners saying 'that the pitchers should be able to throw what ever ball they want to'.

discuss?

[DaveASA/FED]

The reason the I know of is to get both balls into the game. The real rotation only happens at the bottom of the 1st if the starting ball hasn't gone out of play. That just allows both balls to be a little broke in. Nothing worse than going 6 innings and a ball finally going out of play and you give them a new shiny one!

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

The reason the I know of is to get both balls into the game. The real rotation only happens at the bottom of the 1st if the starting ball hasn't gone out of play. That just allows both balls to be a little broke in. Nothing worse than going 6 innings and a ball finally going out of play and you give them a new shiny one!

...and that shiny new one is much harder than the others. One teams gets a bigger advantage being at-bat when the new one comes into play. Not sure that's an absolute fact, but that's a rationale behind ball rotatation.

[okla21fan]

I understand the reasoning in the first two half innings. I am more interested in later on in the game when the balls have already been put into play. Why do we use standard ball rotation procedures lets say in the 5th inning?

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

I understand the reasoning in the first two half innings. I am more interested in later on in the game when the balls have already been put into play. Why do we use standard ball rotation procedures lets say in the 5th inning?

Which rules orgs has a ball rotation requirement after the 1st inning?

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

Which rules orgs has a ball rotation requirement after the 1st inning?

Be the letter of the rule:
ASA
NFHS
(I cant speak for other orgs as I don't call them)

[Andy]

The most obvious reason is to prevent a doctored or non-legal ball from being introduced into the game. The second reason is to keep the game moving.

If a ball goes out of play and a ball is returned from out of play directly to the pitcher, there is the possibility that it is not a legal ball in some way. If all new ball put in the game go through the umpire, there is a chance to inspect the ball to make sure it's legal.

Also, at some of the fields I work, if I had to wait for a ball to come back in from out of play before we could resume the game, it would add about an hour to my game times!

[AtlUmpSteve]

The other reason is to keep the pitcher from holding up the game because there is a "preferred" ball. Too bad, so sad, ball rotation rule says she can only ask for the ball she wants before warming up at start of an inning. Any other time, she is to throw the ball that is in the game.

The partners that say she can throw whatever ball she wants are choosing to ignore a rule. Once you open up that can, it will bite you.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Andy

The most obvious reason is to prevent a doctored or non-legal ball from being introduced into the game. The second reason is to keep the game moving.

If a ball goes out of play and a ball is returned from out of play directly to the pitcher, there is the possibility that it is not a legal ball in some way. If all new ball put in the game go through the umpire, there is a chance to inspect the ball to make sure it's legal.

Also, at some of the fields I work, if I had to wait for a ball to come back in from out of play before we could resume the game, it would add about an hour to my game times!

This is a serious issue in the SP game. The "hit your own" BS is just that. The teams replace the balls they use, but they come through me, into the bag. When I need one, whichever one comes out goes into the game. It cannot be fairer than that.

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

This is a serious issue in the SP game. The "hit your own" BS is just that. The teams replace the balls they use, but they come through me, into the bag. When I need one, whichever one comes out goes into the game. It cannot be fairer than that.

I should have prefaced this to the FP game:

And yes, All balls introduced into the game will come out of my bag (for obvious reasons) Even when the conditions are 'wet', I will not let the dugout coaches throw a dry ball directly to the pitcher.

But the problem seems to be consistency in my area. Some will allow a pitcher to request a different ball after the first inning, anytime as long as it comes out of the PU's bag.

example: 'preferred ball is fouled out of play. different ball introduced in the game from PU. 3 pitches later, 'preferred' ball is thrown back to the PU. Pitcher then request 'preferred' ball.

By rule (ASA or NFHS) the pitcher must continue to pitch the ball out of the PU's bag till it goes out of play or deemed unplayable.

But many in my area would allow for the requested change.

I am looking for feedback here I guess. As I do not allow for the requested changed because of 'ball rotation procedure'.

This is what I am hearing from fellow umps and even UICs.
"After all balls have been put into play, and there is no delay in the game, why not 'let' the pitcher request a change?"

what are the pros and cons do you guys see here?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

This is what I am hearing from fellow umps and even UICs.
"After all balls have been put into play, and there is no delay in the game, why not 'let' the pitcher request a change?"

what are the pros and cons do you guys see here?

The game doesn't make any difference, it is the same directions.

The RS specifically states that the pitcher is NOT (ASA's emphasis, not mine) to be given a choice of ball if there is nothing wrong with the ball in the game.

And to those who choose to ignore this and say "why not", ask the "why not" give the batter a choice of ball? Okay, now to what type of vicious circle will that lead?

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And to those who choose to ignore this and say "why not"

My opinion about this rule is the product of a by-gone era, and the rules do not reflect the current technology of the game. I suppose at one time this rule was needed because the pitchers wanted to throw the "mush" ball or the one they ripped up with their belt buckle.

The balls that are available in today hold up a lot better. It even takes a lot of swings for the SB12 to become mush. And speaking for the Dudley slow pitch, I can't recall the last time I removed one from the game for being mush.

Now that is not to say that all balls shouldn't come through the umpire. I had a high school game in which a SB12 replaced a poly-core ball when the visiting team was at bat. The visiting coach discovered it when it picked up the ball for his pitcher at the end of the inning. So I though about the last foul ball (I was BU), which was innings previous. It was switched during warm ups, as the catcher would start off by rolling a grounder to the pitcher, which she would field and throw the F3.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

But the problem seems to be consistency in my area. Some will allow a pitcher to request a different ball after the first inning, anytime as long as it comes out of the PU's bag.

example: 'preferred ball is fouled out of play. different ball introduced in the game from PU. 3 pitches later, 'preferred' ball is thrown back to the PU. Pitcher then request 'preferred' ball.

By rule (ASA or NFHS) the pitcher must continue to pitch the ball out of the PU's bag till it goes out of play or deemed unplayable.

But many in my area would allow for the requested change.

I am looking for feedback here I guess. As I do not allow for the requested changed because of 'ball rotation procedure'.

This is what I am hearing from fellow umps and even UICs.
"After all balls have been put into play, and there is no delay in the game, why not 'let' the pitcher request a change?"

Some people don't know the rules.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

Be the letter of the rule:
ASA
NFHS
(I cant speak for other orgs as I don't call them)

I guess I mis-understood your statement
"Why do we use standard ball rotation procedures lets say in the 5th inning? " .

I read it as saying the ball should be rotated out as in the bottom of the 1st inning (NFHS 6-5-Article 1) rather than referring to Article 2 which requires the ball to stay in play untill blocked, out of play, etc.

Yes the 6-5 rule is titled "SECTION 5 BALL ROTATION" but my brain was processing only Article 1 as "rotaction"


NFHS 6-5
ART. 1 . . . The pitcher has a choice of balls at the start of each half inning
unless both balls do not get put into play. In that case, the pitcher in the bottom of the first inning must throw the unused ball. Thereafter, the ball in play should be returned to the 16-foot circle after every half inning.

ART. 2 . . . The pitcher may request the other ball before throwing a warm-up
pitch by giving the ball in her possession to the plate umpire, the pitcher has now made a choice and must pitch that ball until such time as the ball goes out of play or becomes blocked.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

My opinion about this rule is the product of a by-gone era, and the rules do not reflect the current technology of the game. I suppose at one time this rule was needed because the pitchers wanted to throw the "mush" ball or the one they ripped up with their belt buckle.

The balls that are available in today hold up a lot better. It even takes a lot of swings for the SB12 to become mush. And speaking for the Dudley slow pitch, I can't recall the last time I removed one from the game for being mush.

Now that is not to say that all balls shouldn't come through the umpire. I had a high school game in which a SB12 replaced a poly-core ball when the visiting team was at bat. The visiting coach discovered it when it picked up the ball for his pitcher at the end of the inning. So I though about the last foul ball (I was BU), which was innings previous. It was switched during warm ups, as the catcher would start off by rolling a grounder to the pitcher, which she would field and throw the F3.

I can tell you as a fact of life, coaches/managers/teams DO abuse this rule when they can. Most umpires are not going to stand there and measure different aspects of the ball. If the appropriate stamp is on it and it is not damaged, it goes into the game.

However, I have first-hand knowledge of coaches throwing in a semi-water logged ball if that would benefit their team at that time. This would be more prominent in SP than FP, but I can see a FP coach wanting a certain ball in against another team.

Is it ridiculous? Hell, yeah, but it happens. Which, like a fair amount of other rules, there is something in place to circumvent a possible problem when a sneaky little sh....er, coach thinks s/he can get even the slightest of advantages.