Dropped third strike?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by clev1967

"respect the game"? How about respecting the people trying to learn more about the game!!



FYI- 90% of the time "the object in the circle the pitcher starts with both feet on or touching" is referenced; it is called the rubber- by players, coaches, umpires, and sellers of the product.

So, as an umpire, you aren't expected to use the proper RULEBOOK terminology? It's okay to call interference obstruction or vice versa whenever you make up a statistic like 90% of the time others use the wrong term?

Or, are you expected to read the rulebook, use the terms defined in the game in the way the rulebook uses them, and discuss the game with others using the proper terms? How about teaching the proper terms to the 90% by using them whenever you talk about them?

[clev1967]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

So, as an umpire, you aren't expected to use the proper RULEBOOK terminology? It's okay to call interference obstruction or vice versa whenever you make up a statistic like 90% of the time others use the wrong term?

Or, are you expected to read the rulebook, use the terms defined in the game in the way the rulebook uses them, and discuss the game with others using the proper terms? How about teaching the proper terms to the 90% by using them whenever you talk about them?

I have no problem using proper rulebook terminology when in a formal setting such as a clinic. But in normal conversation I am going to use what I use and for sure not going to chastise someone for not using "umpire-ese"

Side question for you. You get asked to be the radio guy for a local college or high school game because the normal person is out. Are you going to say things like "ground ball to F5 who throws to F3 for the out" and "base hit up the middle for B3 who is trying to stretch it to second, here comes the throw and oh the batter runner is out."

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by clev1967

I have no problem using proper rulebook terminology when in a formal setting such as a clinic. But in normal conversation I am going to use what I use and for sure not going to chastise someone for not using "umpire-ese"

Side question for you. You get asked to be the radio guy for a local college or high school game because the normal person is out. Are you going to say things like "ground ball to F5 who throws to F3 for the out" and "base hit up the middle for B3 who is trying to stretch it to second, here comes the throw and oh the batter runner is out."

While I agreed that the tone of the post that prompted this discussion was a little off base, I agree with the sentiment - which is to use the proper terminology. Pointing out the difference adds to the knowledge of person who is open to learning. I'm pretty sure Rita will use the proper term from now on.

And I disagree completely with the rest of your above post.

1) This IS a SOFTBALL discussion forum. Although not a formal clinic, it is specifically directed at those who are interested in the proper way of administering softball. Knowingly using the improper term demonstrates a certain lack of respect for the game.

2) Your "side question" is pretty lame......

Like I said... the tone of the chastising post may have been off base, but pointing out the terminology was a teaching experience....

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by clev1967

I have no problem using proper rulebook terminology when in a formal setting such as a clinic. But in normal conversation I am going to use what I use and for sure not going to chastise someone for not using "umpire-ese"

Referring strictly to the paragraph above.

I find that when among folks that are not familiar with the proper terminology is the one time an umpire should be sure to use the correct words, phrases and rule citations.

How are they to learn if you fall into their world of inappropriate use of terms? I'm not suggesting an umpire correct them, but to respond with the appropriate terms, phrases and citations. Doing otherwise just creates confusion and frustration among the players when the encounter those who do it right. Don't believe me, ask those who have UIC a national tournament how many questions they get about "perceived" rules because that is what "Ol' Smitty" back home has been telling them for years.

One of my pet peeves is an umpire that calls pitches "deep" in the SP game especially if they make a motion over the shoulder with it. This is a serious issue when it comes to umpires who call the games and strike zones properly. It is either a ball or a strike. Don't think the word "deep" ever appears in the rules, yet hundreds of umpires, players and fans routinely use it even though there is no value to the term, but someone probably gets ejected every day because of the frustration felt when umpires will not call it "their way".

It is a disservice to the teams and fellow officials to not be professional which includes the proper usage of terms and phrases.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Referring strictly to the paragraph above.

I find that when among folks that are not familiar with the proper terminology is the one time an umpire should be sure to use the correct words, phrases and rule citations.

How are they to learn if you fall into their world of inappropriate use of terms? I'm not suggesting an umpire correct them, but to respond with the appropriate terms, phrases and citations. Doing otherwise just creates confusion and frustration among the players when the encounter those who do it right. Don't believe me, ask those who have UIC a national tournament how many questions they get about "perceived" rules because that is what "Ol' Smitty" back home has been telling them for years.

One of my pet peeves is an umpire that calls pitches "deep" in the SP game especially if they make a motion over the shoulder with it. This is a serious issue when it comes to umpires who call the games and strike zones properly. It is either a ball or a strike. Don't think the word "deep" ever appears in the rules, yet hundreds of umpires, players and fans routinely use it even though there is no value to the term, but someone probably gets ejected every day because of the frustration felt when umpires will not call it "their way".

It is a disservice to the teams and fellow officials to not be professional which includes the proper usage of terms and phrases.

I've already found that it is best to avoid the "leap" and "crow hop" terms with coaches and stick to "replant".

Rita

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Rita C

I've already found that it is best to avoid the "leap" and "crow hop" terms with coaches and stick to "replant".

Rita

Why? Each is a separate act and violations and referring to them as the same is often the cause of consternation among officials.

Folks ignorant of the rules like the term "crow hop" and use it for almost everything they think is an illegal pitcher.

In the opposite direction, I find that the TH doing softball on TV often mention "leaping" immediately upon any called IP before they even look at it on replay. A fair amount of time they are correct. However, there are times when while watching the replay, they talk about the "leap" when the it is evident that the pitcher replanted which is a crow hop, not a leap. But they rarely let the facts get in the way of a strong, yet incorrect, comment.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Why? Each is a separate act and violations and referring to them as the same is often the cause of consternation among officials.

Folks ignorant of the rules like the term "crow hop" and use it for almost everything they think is an illegal pitcher.

In the opposite direction, I find that the TH doing softball on TV often mention "leaping" immediately upon any called IP before they even look at it on replay. A fair amount of time they are correct. However, there are times when while watching the replay, they talk about the "leap" when the it is evident that the pitcher replanted which is a crow hop, not a leap. But they rarely let the facts get in the way of a strong, yet incorrect, comment.

Why? Because I think the coaches have their own definitions as well.

Rita

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Rita C

Why? Because I think the coaches have their own definitions as well.

Rita

So you perpetuate ignorance?

Would you refer to an IP in a softball game as a balk if that is what the coach believes it is?

Do you rule interference on an OBS call because that is what the players think it is?

Nope, cannot agree with you. Next thing you know, you will be referring to R3 as the runner on 3B, R2 as the runner on 2B or R1 as the runner on 1B.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by clev1967

I have no problem using proper rulebook terminology when in a formal setting such as a clinic. But in normal conversation I am going to use what I use and for sure not going to chastise someone for not using "umpire-ese"

Honestly, while you may be a bit bristled by the way the comments were delivered, if you want to be respected in this profession you should at least learn the correct words. The pitcher's plate or the circle are not umpire-ese. I tell you this for your benefit, discard if you must: If I was to hear my partner or another umpire around the water cooler call it "the mound" or "the rubber", my respectometer would immediately decrease several notches - and this is likely true for those you might work with one day.