Still loving Fall Ball

[MD Longhorn]

No more rules insanity like in the other thread...

Game was between the #2 and #3 14U teams in the league, close game, well pitched... yet somehow we have THREE look-back violations in the same inning, none of the "normal" variety.

Sitch 1: R1 on first. Batter strikes out, R1 slowly walks to 2nd base as if it was a walk. Ball back to the pitcher. 2nd baseman says, "it wasn't a walk, you have to go back." and she does. OUT.

Sitch 2: bottom of same inning. Bases loaded, pitch is a ball making the count 3-2. R3 starts trotting to 2nd, gets halfway, stops, turns around and asks the umpire if that was 4 balls. OUT.

Sitch 3: bases reloaded. Pitch is a strike making it 3-2. R2 this time hangs her head and starts to walk toward her dugout (3B), stops midway, faces the pitcher with her hands on her hips with at "wth" look on her face. BU gives her a lot of "deciding which way to go leeway" before calling her out.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

No more rules insanity like in the other thread...

Game was between the #2 and #3 14U teams in the league, close game, well pitched... yet somehow we have THREE look-back violations in the same inning, none of the "normal" variety.

Sitch 1: R1 on first. Batter strikes out, R1 slowly walks to 2nd base as if it was a walk. Ball back to the pitcher. 2nd baseman says, "it wasn't a walk, you have to go back." and she does. OUT.

Sitch 2: bottom of same inning. Bases loaded, pitch is a ball making the count 3-2. R3 starts trotting to 2nd, gets halfway, stops, turns around and asks the umpire if that was 4 balls. OUT.

Sitch 3: bases reloaded. Pitch is a strike making it 3-2. R2 this time hangs her head and starts to walk toward her dugout (3B), stops midway, faces the pitcher with her hands on her hips with at "wth" look on her face. BU gives her a lot of "deciding which way to go leeway" before calling her out.

Is sitch #1 a LBR violation? You didn't say that R1 reached and stopped on 2nd; if so, sure. But, if she simply changed direction without reaching and stopping on the base, I don't have a violation; I have the one legal stop and change of direction any runner between bases may legally make.

Again, it may be you left out the part I consider critical; or maybe we differ on the rule application. Asking for clarification.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Is sitch #1 a LBR violation? You didn't say that R1 reached and stopped on 2nd; if so, sure. But, if she simply changed direction without reaching and stopping on the base, I don't have a violation; I have the one legal stop and change of direction any runner between bases may legally make.

Again, it may be you left out the part I consider critical; or maybe we differ on the rule application. Asking for clarification.

Yes, she was standing on 2nd, stopped. F1 already had the ball. THEN F4 said she had to go back.

[RKBUmp]

Your situation 1 brings up an interesting point. F4 told her she had to go back. Watched a high school game with a very similar situation, was a hit and run, batter missed ball, catcher throws down to F6 but throw is way late. F6 standing there with the ball says, that was a foul ball, you have to go back, runner steps off bag and F6 tags her. Do we have verbal obstruction or just a dumb move base runner?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Your situation 1 brings up an interesting point. F4 told her she had to go back. Watched a high school game with a very similar situation, was a hit and run, batter missed ball, catcher throws down to F6 but throw is way late. F6 standing there with the ball says, that was a foul ball, you have to go back, runner steps off bag and F6 tags her. Do we have verbal obstruction or just a dumb move base runner?

DMR. Runner has a coach in front of her, a coach behind her and she listens to the other team? Definitely, DMR.

[Andy]

I'm going to ask about #2 in the OP:

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Sitch 2: bottom of same inning. Bases loaded, pitch is a ball making the count 3-2. R3 starts trotting to 2nd, gets halfway, stops, turns around and asks the umpire if that was 4 balls. OUT.

The way I see this, R3 stopped, asked, and.....? If the umpire answered "no" and she then went back to first, I have nothing. If she stood there for some time (judgement) wondering what was going on, then I would call the out.

I understand that "immediately proceed" after the stop is strictly umpire judgement, and I wasn't there to see the play, just looking for some further description.

I'm pretty sure that Mike has a good grasp of the lookback rule, he didn't say whether it was him or his partner that made this call.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Andy

I'm going to ask about #2 in the OP:

The way I see this, R3 stopped, asked, and.....? If the umpire answered "no" and she then went back to first, I have nothing. If she stood there for some time (judgement) wondering what was going on, then I would call the out.

I understand that "immediately proceed" after the stop is strictly umpire judgement, and I wasn't there to see the play, just looking for some further description.

I'm pretty sure that Mike has a good grasp of the lookback rule, he didn't say whether it was him or his partner that made this call.

I was PU. First off (and I'm surprised it didn't get mentioned here... was kind of waiting for it), I wouldn't be caught dead in B with the bases loaded! BU did, in fact, say "No." Runner still stood there and didn't go either way - at which point she was called out.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Your situation 1 brings up an interesting point. F4 told her she had to go back. Watched a high school game with a very similar situation, was a hit and run, batter missed ball, catcher throws down to F6 but throw is way late. F6 standing there with the ball says, that was a foul ball, you have to go back, runner steps off bag and F6 tags her. Do we have verbal obstruction or just a dumb move base runner?

Funny you say that - coach actually asked for "verbal interference", although he didn't ask until between innings. I see both mine and yours as DMR.